Seed storage

[NarnianGarden]

This probably has been debated here somewhat, but bear with me.
Various garden sites recommended freezer to be the best option for long term tomato (and pepper) seeds storage. I have done so and stuffed my little freezing compartment with ziploc bags, some with the anti-moisture gel pieces. Now, others say freezer is not so sure and fridge is safer..

Should I removed my seeds from freezer and stuff them to fridge instead? I do not see any moisture condensation and I'm not going to do a germination test with the precious ones (waiting till feb for the first indoor growing efforts)..
I refuse to give up wothout a fight... How do you recommend I handle my treasure until Feb/March?

And oh, I should add I have stored strawberry seeds in freezer and they produced just fine.

[KarenO]

Hi there,
when you say "long term storage, how long do you mean? more than say 3-5 years?
KarenO

[NarnianGarden]

Eventually yes, but right now I am thinking of season 2014.

[MrBig46]

I don´t use a freezer neither fridge. I have tomato seeds in coolish room (18°C) also several years.
Vladimír

[amideutch]

I've always stored mine in the cellar with the temps running 50-60 deg F. Last year I got seeds for 2 varieties that were 13 and 15 years old. He had them stored in a freezer the whole time. I planted 6 seeds each from each variety and had 100% germination from both
varieties and needless to say I was very surprised! I did soak them in a solution of potassium nitrate before planting because of their age. Time to germination was the same as other seeds planted which some of were no more than 2 years old.

Ami

[NarnianGarden]

The reason I got concerned was the warning that freezer storage has more risks of moisture condensation. I did have silica gel packages in my little bags and hope they were all kept try enough. However, I removed the treasured seeds from freezer and placed them in glass jar instead ---> fridge. (takes lots of space!)
I hope they haven't been damaged in any way and will germinate in the spring.
Parts of my seed collection are still in room temperature, so at least they should have no moisture condensation challenges...
Complicated ..

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

The reason I got concerned was the warning that freezer storage has more risks of moisture condensation. I did have silica gel packages in my little bags and hope they were all kept try enough. However, I removed the treasure from freezer and placed them in glass jar instead ---> fridge. (takes lots of space!)
Complications...

As long as you dry the seeds down to about 6-8% moisture content there's no moisture problems as long as you remove the seeds quickly and get them back in the freezer ASAP. The moisture problems comes about after you've removed them from the freezer and they are exposed to ambient temps and humidity.

All to say that I never store my seeds in the freezer or the fridge. They are stored at room temps in vials, from 1991 to 95 seeds, and just in normal envelopes beyond that. And I've never thrown out one saved seed, ever.

And yes, they last a long time that way, but as Ami described, I do treat them if they are over about 12-15 yo. I use to use potasssium nitrate, but switched to another method quite a few years ago, when needed.

I've sent my non treated seeds from 1993 to Mark McCaslin and they germinated. The project we had going to recover the variety Tadesse, was started with my 1994 seeds and that went fine as well. But with such older seeds it can take a couple of months, if indeed they eventually do germinate

But I knew the age of my seeds since I was the one who produced them. When one buys or trades for seeds that isn't always the case.

Pepper seeds do not last as long as tomato seeds and several of us have found the seeds for heart shaped tomato varieties don't have the longevity that others do.

My record to date was waking up seeds of September Dawn that were 22 yo, but the known record was waking up some seeds that were 50 yo that were just stored in a filing cabinet in Cheyenne, WY, which was the precursor to the USDA station in IA, and when they went from WY to IA, they were tested in IA.

Carolyn

[NarnianGarden]

Thank you Ms. Carolyn et al, I knew that the more wise would chime in. What's frustrating is all the contradicting instructions and recommendations. One site said that frozen seeds should be thawed slowly ... now Carolyn you're saying they should be taken out quickly
Anyhoo, I already have sent my 'once-frozen-now-thawed' seeds to several people for Christmas, I hope they will do fine.
Now storing them in the fridge, hoping they'll be OK until March... I really hope I didn't kill them by freezing, if I did, I pray for resurrection...

[NarnianGarden]

Just wondering how I should go about it when it's time to sow the first seeds. when I take the bags out of the fridge - should I just quickly grab the needed amount of seeds and return the remaining ones as soon as I can - or should I wait until they warm out a bit?
Gosh, how difficult

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Just wondering how I should go about it when it's time to sow the first seeds. when I take the bags out of the fridge - should I just quickly grab the needed amount of seeds and return the remaining ones as soon as I can - or should I wait until they warm out a bit?
Gosh, how difficult

If just in the fridge, no need to warm them up to take some seeds out, just take them out and return the others to the fridge.

The problem with frozen seeds is that if the moisture level is not lowered to 6-8% before freezing them, then ice xstals can form and destroy the seed.

That doesn't happen with fridge stored seeds since fridge temps are above freezing.

Carolyn

[Tania]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If just in the fridge, no need to warm them up to take some seeds out, just take them out and return the others to the fridge.

The problem with frozen seeds is that if the moisture level is not lowered to 6-8% before freezing them, then ice xstals can form and destroy the seed.

That doesn't happen with fridge stored seeds since fridge temps are above freezing.

Carolyn

Carolyn explained it so well!

I do not store seeds in the freezer for the reason that I can never be sure that the seeds moisture level is below 6%.

If you are sure your seeds are dry enough, then freezer storage is great, especially if you need to store seeds for over 10 years. Not in our rainforest area!

Fridge storage is very good (seeds need to be sealed in a jar, so moisture does not accumulate), and germination stays close to 100% up to 10 years or longer.

For short term storage (1-4 years), room temperature (60-72F) is good enough for tomato seed storage. They do not lose germination, unless you have high humidity, then it is a different story.

[AKmark]

Would using a foodsaver, or a vacuum sealer device of like, preserve the seeds for decades, a thousand years, etc, in cooler temps? Isnt Oxygen what degrades life anyway?

[Tania]

breathing does use up the resources stored in a seed. So yes, breathing will eventually reduce the seed viability.

However, cooler temperatures and lower moisture level significantly decrease respiration. Hence preserving seed viability for much longer.

I would think that vacuum seal will help, but I yet to find a definitive proof of this on the net. (Although I did not spend too much time searching - so perhaps it is there somewhere)

[NarnianGarden]

Thanks all, I hope my seeds are fine and didn't suffer too much from their frozen period... It can get confusing with all the different advice and recs of the internet.
I think from now on I'll stick to room temps - although that can take space too. My freezer compartment was an ideal place for storage, but it sounds too risky now, even with the silica gel...
How can one be sure the moisture is down to 6%? If I have received seeds from other people (meaning commercial vendors) and they're well packed, I would assume they're dry enough. My own collecting experiments... ah that's another issue.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Thanks all, I hope my seeds are fine and didn't suffer too much from their frozen period... It can get confusing with all the different advice and recs of the internet.
I think from now on I'll stick to room temps - although that can take space too. My freezer compartment was an ideal place for storage, but it sounds too risky now, even with the silica gel...
How can one be sure the moisture is down to 6%? If I have received seeds from other people (meaning commercial vendors) and they're well packed, I would assume they're dry enough. My own collecting experiments... ah that's another issue.

Dessicants are sold that change color depending on the moisture content. I don 't have the time right now to locate a source for those, but perhaps someone already knows some sources or one can Google them.

I would not assume that seeds from commercial sources, nor traded seeds would have as low a moisture content as 6-8%.

Yes, they would be dry, but not as dry as seeds with that low a moisture content.

I'm all for not even fooling around with refrigerating or freezing seeds, as I posted above, although those in hot humid areas such as the US SEast in particular might consider protecting the most important of their seeds where summers do have high sustained humidity levels.

Carolyn