Best material for raised beds??????

CharlieM · January 20, 2014

Hello,
New member here and have a question.

For the past 12 years I have raised my tomato's in two raised beds. Four plants per bed. The beds are made from old railroad ties and they are near the end of their life and need replacing. I had planned to use pressure treated 2 x 8's because of the cost but after much research I am somewhat concerned about the safety of pressured treated lumber. So, I am seeking advice for anyone who has an opinion on this subject. Do you think the modern pressure treated lumber poses a health hazard? If so, can you suggest an alternative? Let me say up front, cost is a consideration. since I only plant 8 plants each year I can not justify a large outlay of cash.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Charlie

dustdevil · January 20, 2014

I would talk to a tree service or a firewood guy about getting some 8' log pieces to work with.

You can also make a frame out of cement block. Big city price is usually around $1 for an inside block.

No deal on cypress in your area?

drew51 · January 21, 2014

Alternatives are expensive. Landscaping bricks, Cedar, composite decking board. Pressure treated lumber is treated with copper only. It's actually not very good. It does keep mold out, and snails too. But doesn't last as long as the old stuff. I spray my fruit trees and many plants with copper every year. My water pipes are made out of copper. It is a required trace element to plants. Copper is the key to elasticity in the plant. It is an important constituent of many proteins like ascorbic acid oxidase, cytochrome oxidase, diamine oxidase, and polyphenol oxidase. I would eat tomatoes in raised beds made with treated wood no problem. Arsenic was removed from treated wood in 2003.
Some copper will leach into the soil, exposure is minimal. The plants will die first. But to be safe, a liner can be used. Or you could seal the wood.

Some feel it is unsafe or borderline
http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/...rden-beds.aspx

Some think it is very safe
http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/is...table-gardens/

To tell the truth I'm more concerned about all the plastic we use. Proven to leach, so it concerns me.
And for full disclosure some of my beds are cedar, some are treated lumber. I will eventually replace all with brick.

Cole_Robbie · January 21, 2014

Do you think the modern pressure treated lumber poses a health hazard?

No, not at all. The old stuff did not, either.

joseph · January 21, 2014

I tend to use natural stone or pavers for raised beds.

Sodak · January 21, 2014

6 beds 4'X 4' X 1' tall. all cedar. works great!

drew51 · January 21, 2014

Natural stone, pavers or cedar though are expensive. And cedar is not going to last that long. It will last longer than untreated wood, but my cedar cottage has had plenty of rotted boards through the years. I like the look though of these products and plain to slowly convert beds over to pavers or another stone. But it's nice to use treated wood and keep it under 20 bucks a bed. I have used an acrylic stain on the outside of treated, and they look great too.

drew51 · January 21, 2014

2 months later....

kath · January 21, 2014

Our free wooden ones rotted, so we replaced with free cement block from a neighbor. We purchased cap block for the tops @ 75 cents each to improve the look a bit. We're having snow at the moment so I can't get a photo. They do take up more room, of course, but some people plant in the holes- I prefer to be able to sit on the block when working.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cinde...w=1100&bih=667

JLJ_ · January 21, 2014

Charlie, I hesitated to post this, as the suggestions you've received make beautifully bordered beds and are probably what you have in mind, but as you did mention cost as an element . . .

I needed to create some beds quickly, and didn't have any boundary materials that I wanted to use near food plants -- cost was an element for me, too, though the distance I have to fetch purchased materials and the time and effort it takes to fetch them was a large consideration, also.

So what I did was use a trenching shovel to cut turf and earth blocks the size I wanted and used those to build my bed boundaries. I inverted the turf sections to discourage grass/weed growth, and I also used mulching materials over them for the same purpose.

While if I had a genie in a bottle looking for something to do with itself I would probably have it build beds like those described above, I was pleased enough with the results of my "natural earth wall" beds that I'm planning to build a few more this year.

They're not as tidily edged as I would like, but that's more a result of my grouchy aged bones than an innate limitation of the building material.

I do have a large assortment of suitable size rocks available that I could use for borders, but the problem with any material like that, here, is that they create a relatively predator resistant haven for voles and other such destructive garden invaders.

It's a thought, anyway.

b54red · January 21, 2014

I have beds made of the old treated lumber. They are now over 30 years old and are bowed and tilted terribly, but still functional. If I had it to do over I would build my beds out of brick and have them mortared well and fill the holes with mortar. I would then cap them with treated lumber so I would have something to staple plastic to when covering them in the winter. If I didn't use brick I would use the slimmer concrete blocks set on a small foundation of concrete to stop them sinking and falling out as the years go on. I would then top them with treated lumber fastened firmly to the brick or block. If you're planning to stay where you are for a long time then go ahead and try find the money to build something that will last. You won't regret it in the long run.

I definitely wouldn't use the treated lumber they make now because it doesn't last long enough and you have to replace it too often. Termites get into some of the new boards despite the claims and down here that is a constant worry with any wood. One of my good friends made all of his beds out of the new treated lumber and has had to replace most of his beds every few years so the cost is continuous. If cost were no object I would love beds made with some of the nicer paving stones because they would look so good.

Bill

NewWestGardener · January 21, 2014

I made mine out of Hardie Planks (8"x12') and am happy with them. They were painted with latex paint on all sides, then doubled up (for rigidity). I then drilled holes on corners and connected them with Lee Valley's brackets (highly recommend them, so easy to use). I also lined the beds with landscape fabric. It's been four years now and there's no sign of deterioation. Pretty solid you can even sit on it.

drew51 · January 21, 2014

It's pretty amazing how creative people are with raised beds. I connected mine with simple 3 1/2 inch deck screws, 3 in each corner. They hold people on decks, so can't be all bad. No brackets and some are 12 feet long. I conned two 12 footers to make a 24 foot run, only 25 inches wide. For raspberries. Tomatoes would work good like that too, next project

What I would like to know when removing old wood, did the dirt stay? Did you just remove the board? or did you shore up the new piece to the old wood?

TomatoDon · January 21, 2014

I made a lot of beds out of treated lumber and never had a problem. Never HEARD of a problem that anyone else had either with treated lumber. There are university studies about this and they all said that treated lumber is safe.

If you are still concerned here's what you can do. First, if you are going to the trouble of building raised beds, go all the way. I started with 2 x 8's but after a few years went to 2 x 12's. Last year I made a 5 x 12 bed that was 24" tall, placing a 2 x 12 frame on top of the bottom frame. I quit counting after about 700 tomatoes from that one bed.

I started off lining the wood part of the beds with visqueen. I never saw that it did any good, but if you are concerned about the chemicals in the treated wood, just line the beds with visqueen. You can stop if about an inch or so from the top of the bed so it can't be seen.

This topic is brought up over and over again. So far I haven't heard of anyone having trouble from using treated wood. And the wider the bed is, the less cause for concern you should have.

Get two 2x12x12 (feet) and two 2 x 12x10 (feet). Make a 5 x 12 bed. You won't regret it. Make it double the height and you'll love it even more.

drew51 · January 21, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomatoDon

Last year I made a 5 x 12 bed that was 24" tall, placing a 2 x 12 frame on top of the bottom frame. I quit counting after about 700 tomatoes from that one bed.

How far were the plants in the row? How many rows?
I have an 8x12, it is full of strawberries currently.
I should have made two 4x12's to reach across from either side. 4 feet width might be better?

January 20, 2014	#1
CharlieM Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Louisiana Posts: 12	Best material for raised beds?????? Hello, New member here and have a question. For the past 12 years I have raised my tomato's in two raised beds. Four plants per bed. The beds are made from old railroad ties and they are near the end of their life and need replacing. I had planned to use pressure treated 2 x 8's because of the cost but after much research I am somewhat concerned about the safety of pressured treated lumber. So, I am seeking advice for anyone who has an opinion on this subject. Do you think the modern pressure treated lumber poses a health hazard? If so, can you suggest an alternative? Let me say up front, cost is a consideration. since I only plant 8 plants each year I can not justify a large outlay of cash. Thanks in advance for your advice. Charlie

January 21, 2014	#3
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	Alternatives are expensive. Landscaping bricks, Cedar, composite decking board. Pressure treated lumber is treated with copper only. It's actually not very good. It does keep mold out, and snails too. But doesn't last as long as the old stuff. I spray my fruit trees and many plants with copper every year. My water pipes are made out of copper. It is a required trace element to plants. Copper is the key to elasticity in the plant. It is an important constituent of many proteins like ascorbic acid oxidase, cytochrome oxidase, diamine oxidase, and polyphenol oxidase. I would eat tomatoes in raised beds made with treated wood no problem. Arsenic was removed from treated wood in 2003. Some copper will leach into the soil, exposure is minimal. The plants will die first. But to be safe, a liner can be used. Or you could seal the wood. Some feel it is unsafe or borderline http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/...rden-beds.aspx Some think it is very safe http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/is...table-gardens/ To tell the truth I'm more concerned about all the plastic we use. Proven to leach, so it concerns me. And for full disclosure some of my beds are cedar, some are treated lumber. I will eventually replace all with brick. Last edited by drew51; January 21, 2014 at 02:32 AM.

January 21, 2014	#6
Sodak Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: 5a SD Posts: 253	6 beds 4'X 4' X 1' tall. all cedar. works great! __________________ Fight the good fight, finish the course and keep the faith

January 21, 2014	#7
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	Natural stone, pavers or cedar though are expensive. And cedar is not going to last that long. It will last longer than untreated wood, but my cedar cottage has had plenty of rotted boards through the years. I like the look though of these products and plain to slowly convert beds over to pavers or another stone. But it's nice to use treated wood and keep it under 20 bucks a bed. I have used an acrylic stain on the outside of treated, and they look great too. Last edited by drew51; January 21, 2014 at 10:03 AM.

January 21, 2014	#14
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	I made a lot of beds out of treated lumber and never had a problem. Never HEARD of a problem that anyone else had either with treated lumber. There are university studies about this and they all said that treated lumber is safe. If you are still concerned here's what you can do. First, if you are going to the trouble of building raised beds, go all the way. I started with 2 x 8's but after a few years went to 2 x 12's. Last year I made a 5 x 12 bed that was 24" tall, placing a 2 x 12 frame on top of the bottom frame. I quit counting after about 700 tomatoes from that one bed. I started off lining the wood part of the beds with visqueen. I never saw that it did any good, but if you are concerned about the chemicals in the treated wood, just line the beds with visqueen. You can stop if about an inch or so from the top of the bed so it can't be seen. This topic is brought up over and over again. So far I haven't heard of anyone having trouble from using treated wood. And the wider the bed is, the less cause for concern you should have. Get two 2x12x12 (feet) and two 2 x 12x10 (feet). Make a 5 x 12 bed. You won't regret it. Make it double the height and you'll love it even more. __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

January 20, 2014	#2
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	I would talk to a tree service or a firewood guy about getting some 8' log pieces to work with. You can also make a frame out of cement block. Big city price is usually around $1 for an inside block. No deal on cypress in your area?

January 21, 2014	#4
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Do you think the modern pressure treated lumber poses a health hazard? No, not at all. The old stuff did not, either.

January 21, 2014	#5
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	I tend to use natural stone or pavers for raised beds.

January 21, 2014	#9
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	Our free wooden ones rotted, so we replaced with free cement block from a neighbor. We purchased cap block for the tops @ 75 cents each to improve the look a bit. We're having snow at the moment so I can't get a photo. They do take up more room, of course, but some people plant in the holes- I prefer to be able to sit on the block when working. http://www.google.com/search?q=cinde...w=1100&bih=667

January 21, 2014	#10
JLJ_ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 759	Charlie, I hesitated to post this, as the suggestions you've received make beautifully bordered beds and are probably what you have in mind, but as you did mention cost as an element . . . I needed to create some beds quickly, and didn't have any boundary materials that I wanted to use near food plants -- cost was an element for me, too, though the distance I have to fetch purchased materials and the time and effort it takes to fetch them was a large consideration, also. So what I did was use a trenching shovel to cut turf and earth blocks the size I wanted and used those to build my bed boundaries. I inverted the turf sections to discourage grass/weed growth, and I also used mulching materials over them for the same purpose. While if I had a genie in a bottle looking for something to do with itself I would probably have it build beds like those described above, I was pleased enough with the results of my "natural earth wall" beds that I'm planning to build a few more this year. They're not as tidily edged as I would like, but that's more a result of my grouchy aged bones than an innate limitation of the building material. I do have a large assortment of suitable size rocks available that I could use for borders, but the problem with any material like that, here, is that they create a relatively predator resistant haven for voles and other such destructive garden invaders. It's a thought, anyway.

January 21, 2014	#11
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I have beds made of the old treated lumber. They are now over 30 years old and are bowed and tilted terribly, but still functional. If I had it to do over I would build my beds out of brick and have them mortared well and fill the holes with mortar. I would then cap them with treated lumber so I would have something to staple plastic to when covering them in the winter. If I didn't use brick I would use the slimmer concrete blocks set on a small foundation of concrete to stop them sinking and falling out as the years go on. I would then top them with treated lumber fastened firmly to the brick or block. If you're planning to stay where you are for a long time then go ahead and try find the money to build something that will last. You won't regret it in the long run. I definitely wouldn't use the treated lumber they make now because it doesn't last long enough and you have to replace it too often. Termites get into some of the new boards despite the claims and down here that is a constant worry with any wood. One of my good friends made all of his beds out of the new treated lumber and has had to replace most of his beds every few years so the cost is continuous. If cost were no object I would love beds made with some of the nicer paving stones because they would look so good. Bill

January 21, 2014	#12
NewWestGardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 564	I made mine out of Hardie Planks (8"x12') and am happy with them. They were painted with latex paint on all sides, then doubled up (for rigidity). I then drilled holes on corners and connected them with Lee Valley's brackets (highly recommend them, so easy to use). I also lined the beds with landscape fabric. It's been four years now and there's no sign of deterioation. Pretty solid you can even sit on it.