Is there something wrong with my Prue?

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Hi everyone, I hope this is the right forum for this post. I've grown tomatoes from seeds for about 4 seasons now, so still a newbie compared to others. This year, I have about 25 seedlings under lamps right now, at a stage where they are ready to be hardened off. I have a small fan blowing through them. They are in Pro-Mix with a tablespoon of Tomato-Tone in each 18 oz cup. I usually water them when the soil is dry and the plants get a little wilty.

The reason for the post is that most of the seedlings are doing great, except for Prue. I have never grown Prue before but this year I have 3 Prue plants, and they all look miserable. I've lurked on here before so I understand that "miserable" is what Prue should look like normally, but I'm not sure the leaves are supposed to twist and curl this much. I didn't want to ignore it in case it was something that can be fixed.

For example...these are some of my other seedlings (shown are Cherokee green, JD's Special C-Tex, Lucky Cross, and Earl's Faux). They have not developed any leaf twisting/curling issues.

Here are the three Prues. The new leaves start out normal enough and then start curling eventually.

Here's a close up of one branch where the leaves curl underneath. There are also leaves that fold/roll inward. I don't understand that if this is a physiological issue, why doesn't it affect other plants?

So for those folks who have grown Prue before, is this normal and due to genetics? Or am I doing something wrong? Will it stay this way after it's been planted into the ground? And does this behavior affect tomato production?

Many thanks!

rnewste · February 16, 2014

My initial thought is that a Tablespoon of fertilizer for a young plant in a cup that size is too much. Parsing it out a bit at a time is better for the plant (less shock).

Raybo

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Thanks for replying Raybo. Any thoughts on why the other plants dont seem to show signs of overfertilization? And if I did overfertilize the Prue plants, what steps can be taken to reduce the shock?

rnewste · February 16, 2014

Speculation on my part, but Prue *may* be more sensitive to over-fertilization. In any event, you may want to consider adding a Teaspoon at a time to plants in cups in the future.

Raybo

lycopene · February 16, 2014

I see your point, I will definitely reconsider adding that amount in the future.

Does anyone know if there is an ideal amount of Tomato-tone (or other organic slow-release fertilizers) that should be added at this stage? There seems to be a lot of opinions on the internet about how much to fertilize (if at all) before the plants go into the ground.

At first I didn't fertlize because the Pro-Mix seedling mix was supposed to have some fert in it already but not sure how much. That was when the seedlings showed signs of underfeeding - mainly yellowing of older leaves. I repotted them with the 1 tablespoon of fertilizer (just a guestimate) and most of them started to improve, leaves going back to dark green and plants looking fuller. Then of course the leaf curl issue developed with Prue

.

In any case, what does it mean for the plant? Will it grow out of it and be fine?

ScottinAtlanta · February 16, 2014

I fertilize seedlings at that stage with dilute fish fertilizer - 1-2 tablespoons per gallon. Seems to avoid that Prue thing. I have found that Prue seems more delicate than other tomatoes - always the first to go down to disease in my garden. I don't plant it any more.

Hermitian · February 16, 2014

Lycopene,

I'm looking at the manufacturer's page for Tomato-Tone: http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/ton...l#.UwBNn_ldV8E

For Potted Plants mix one part Tomato-tone to 30 parts soil mixture ( 1.25 cups of Tomato-tone for every 8 qt. of soil).

So your containers are 18 fluid ounces, which works out to 0.5625 quarts. Following the manufacturer's guidelines that would mean 1.25 cups x (0.5625 qts / 8 qts) = 1.4 Tablespoons. So I think your dosage was just fine.

It would seem in your "experiment" that the only variable is cultivar and the Prues are all contorted. They don't look miserable to me, just contorted. I'd be concerned about getting them enough light in the right spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) but otherwise not to worry.

Also I don't endorse that kind of fertilizer, it is missing minerals from the electrolyte series that plants need to combat disease.

Worth1 · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycopene

In any case, what does it mean for the plant? Will it grow out of it and be fine?

I means you have turned you poor little Prue plant into a fertilizer addict, it can never go back and will be an outcast among tomato society.
It will roam the garden in rags never to have a home while its more fortunate fertilizer huffing buddies look on in disgust.
Poor Prue.

Worth

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I fertilize seedlings at that stage with dilute fish fertilizer - 1-2 tablespoons per gallon. Seems to avoid that Prue thing. I have found that Prue seems more delicate than other tomatoes - always the first to go down to disease in my garden. I don't plant it any more.

Interesting that Prue is the most delicate in your garden! I hope it doesn't die this season for me, I want to try that wonderful "unique" flavor that some have raved about

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Lycopene,

I'm looking at the manufacturer's page for Tomato-Tone: http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/ton...l#.UwBNn_ldV8E

For Potted Plants mix one part Tomato-tone to 30 parts soil mixture ( 1.25 cups of Tomato-tone for every 8 qt. of soil).

So your containers are 18 fluid ounces, which works out to 0.5625 quarts. Following the manufacturer's guidelines that would mean 1.25 cups x (0.5625 qts / 8 qts) = 1.4 Tablespoons. So I think your dosage was just fine.

It would seem in your "experiment" that the only variable is cultivar and the Prues are all contorted. They don't look miserable to me, just contorted. I'd be concerned about getting them enough light in the right spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) but otherwise not to worry.

Thanks for doing the math on that. Lucky for me that worked out. In the future, I might still do less at first and add more later as Raybo suggested, because it makes sense to not throw everything at them at once. That's reassuring that you think they don't look too miserable

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Also I don't endorse that kind of fertilizer, it is missing minerals from the electrolyte series that plants need to combat disease.

Can you explain more about the electrolyte series?

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

I means you have turned you poor little Prue plant into a fertilizer addict, it can never go back and will be an outcast among tomato society.
It will roam the garden in rags never to have a home while its more fortunate fertilizer huffing buddies look on in disgust.
Poor Prue.

Worth

That was beautiful! Thanks for the laugh. Unless my sarcasto-meter is off, I'm guessing you're saying "chill out, things will be fine." But it's so hard not to over-mother the tomato babies, haha.

Worth1 · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycopene

That was beautiful! Thanks for the laugh. Unless my sarcasto-meter is off, I'm guessing you're saying "chill out, things will be fine." But it's so hard not to over-mother the tomato babies, haha.

No I'm not saying anything of the sort.

I truly feel for folks that have problems with their plants and help when I can.
But I can see you are in good hands with the advice you received.

Due to my active imagination I compared poor Prue to people and how they react to their less fortunate friends that get addicted when they dont.

I can see poor Prue roaming the garden with its raggedy leaves and a shopping cart while the other snobs are doing just fine.

Kinda like how everyone feels sorry for the poor movie star that is addicted but the rest of the poor slobs are just plain old junkies.

These crazy things infest my mind and I have to have an outlet.

I dont get too serious about tomato plants and have been known to throw them 10 feet into their new hole in the ground.

Worth

Hermitian · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I fertilize seedlings at that stage with dilute fish fertilizer - 1-2 tablespoons per gallon. ...

That works out to be about the same quantity of Nitrogen as Lycopene used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycopene

... Can you explain more about the electrolyte series?

Plants need trace amounts of copper and zinc for a number of functions, including nutrient transport and disease resilience. I read a lot of concern here at Tomatoville about virus control. But when I look at the growing medium and nutrient program: of course they're having trouble!

In agriculture, we don't use chemicals (chelated minerals) because we have to -- we do so because we want to. Further, the use of chelated micronutrients is wide-spread in commercial certified organic agriculture (USDA NOP). The majority of people not using them are homeowners pursuing what they believe is "organic" gardening.

mrdoitall · February 16, 2014

Here a little info.>>>http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi...leaf_roll.html

**carolyn137** · February 16, 2014

Tom G who introduced this variety posts here frequently and I'm sure he will see this thread.

I don't think it's a fertilizer issue at all.

I've grown Prue many times and love it, and have told Tom it's one of few varieties I can ID by taste alone.

I just tried to access Tania's page for it to show you the foliage, but right now I can't access it.

It's normal for this variety to have narrow thin leaves that twist and turn and can be upside down as well. Perhaps too much N has accentuated that, I can't make that call since I never fertilized my starts until they were set out and even then no sooner than about two weeks after being set out.

Slow steady growth is what I want..

In addition, you'll see fruits of all different shapes on the plant, which is also normal and has been that way forever.

So that's my take on what's been shown and posted about so far in this thread.

Carolyn

February 16, 2014	#1
lycopene Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 31	Is there something wrong with my Prue? Hi everyone, I hope this is the right forum for this post. I've grown tomatoes from seeds for about 4 seasons now, so still a newbie compared to others. This year, I have about 25 seedlings under lamps right now, at a stage where they are ready to be hardened off. I have a small fan blowing through them. They are in Pro-Mix with a tablespoon of Tomato-Tone in each 18 oz cup. I usually water them when the soil is dry and the plants get a little wilty. The reason for the post is that most of the seedlings are doing great, except for Prue. I have never grown Prue before but this year I have 3 Prue plants, and they all look miserable. I've lurked on here before so I understand that "miserable" is what Prue should look like normally, but I'm not sure the leaves are supposed to twist and curl this much. I didn't want to ignore it in case it was something that can be fixed. For example...these are some of my other seedlings (shown are Cherokee green, JD's Special C-Tex, Lucky Cross, and Earl's Faux). They have not developed any leaf twisting/curling issues. Here are the three Prues. The new leaves start out normal enough and then start curling eventually. Here's a close up of one branch where the leaves curl underneath. There are also leaves that fold/roll inward. I don't understand that if this is a physiological issue, why doesn't it affect other plants? So for those folks who have grown Prue before, is this normal and due to genetics? Or am I doing something wrong? Will it stay this way after it's been planted into the ground? And does this behavior affect tomato production? Many thanks!

February 16, 2014	#7
Hermitian BANNED Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,112	Lycopene, I'm looking at the manufacturer's page for Tomato-Tone: http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/ton...l#.UwBNn_ldV8E For Potted Plants mix one part Tomato-tone to 30 parts soil mixture ( 1.25 cups of Tomato-tone for every 8 qt. of soil). So your containers are 18 fluid ounces, which works out to 0.5625 quarts. Following the manufacturer's guidelines that would mean 1.25 cups x (0.5625 qts / 8 qts) = 1.4 Tablespoons. So I think your dosage was just fine. It would seem in your "experiment" that the only variable is cultivar and the Prues are all contorted. They don't look miserable to me, just contorted. I'd be concerned about getting them enough light in the right spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) but otherwise not to worry. Also I don't endorse that kind of fertilizer, it is missing minerals from the electrolyte series that plants need to combat disease. __________________ Richard _<\|\|>_

February 16, 2014	#15
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Tom G who introduced this variety posts here frequently and I'm sure he will see this thread. I don't think it's a fertilizer issue at all. I've grown Prue many times and love it, and have told Tom it's one of few varieties I can ID by taste alone. I just tried to access Tania's page for it to show you the foliage, but right now I can't access it. It's normal for this variety to have narrow thin leaves that twist and turn and can be upside down as well. Perhaps too much N has accentuated that, I can't make that call since I never fertilized my starts until they were set out and even then no sooner than about two weeks after being set out. Slow steady growth is what I want.. In addition, you'll see fruits of all different shapes on the plant, which is also normal and has been that way forever. So that's my take on what's been shown and posted about so far in this thread. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

February 16, 2014	#2
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	My initial thought is that a Tablespoon of fertilizer for a young plant in a cup that size is too much. Parsing it out a bit at a time is better for the plant (less shock). Raybo

February 16, 2014	#6
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	I fertilize seedlings at that stage with dilute fish fertilizer - 1-2 tablespoons per gallon. Seems to avoid that Prue thing. I have found that Prue seems more delicate than other tomatoes - always the first to go down to disease in my garden. I don't plant it any more.

February 16, 2014	#14
mrdoitall Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 185	Here a little info.>>>http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi...leaf_roll.html