Wall O Water -- support? and index, sorta

[JLJ_]

I recently ran across a pretty good local sale on the original Wall O Waters so I bought 6 packages (18) total. I grow too many tomatoes to enclose them all -- and some other methods may work better, at least for me -- but I do know folks who love the Wall O Water units and thought I'd try them to see if I can get a few plants producing earlier. Little late for them this year, though we are still getting periods of snow accumulation, so I'll probably try them with a few plants.

I read quite a few threads here about them, and have listed them below as a convenience for some who might have them or be thinking about them.

But one issue I wondered about -- many advocate using support inside the Wall O Water.

1) Are there any who like them who do not use support with them?

2) Does the desirability of support vary with the size of the plant and/or how long you leave it in place?

3) What support methods work best, without quadrupling the size of the investment? (Support costing way more than the Wall O Water)



A number of internal supports (anything with any rough places on it) seem to me likely to damage and shorten the useful lives of the Walls O Water

An internal tripod of PVC might be one possibility -- durable, smooth and easily cut to desired length. Not sure about the cost issue, seems that every time I price something I haven't bought recently I go into sticker shock -- and then, sometimes, I realize that the last time I bought (whatever) the person selling it to me probably hadn't been born.

I also considered a central stake large enough to support the grown tomato plant. Presumably the WOW could be gathered at the top, especially if tubes were not completely filled, and tied to the central stake for a little support, and if the stake was not smooth, it could easily be padded at the contact point.

Anyway, thought I'd see what innovative ideas others had developed.


Some threads on the topic, for any interested:

tomato in Wall o water verse 3 foot snow drift
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=295

Wall O Water
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=7664

Raybo's Wall-O-(bottled)Water for $0.47 Bill of Materials
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=7913

Playing "Catch-Up" with Ray's Wall-O-(bottled) Water
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=8196

Antifreeze in a wall-o-water
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=9501

What are some opinions on "Wall-O-Water"s?
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16819

Wall-O-Waters - looking for advice/comments if you've used them
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=214139

wall of water and mold/fungus
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27260

Wall O Water - Who Has Best Prices?
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=31949

[kath]

Bamboo stakes are cheap and fairly smooth- that's what I used this year.

[Sodak]

I have not used internal support and have not really needed it, but I did have some WOWs fall over in strong winds this year. A tripod of bamboo or pvc may have prevented that.

[TomatoDon]

The original MarkFeron Wall of Water thread is by far the best. In fact, it was one of the first threads we had here after Tomatoville opened.

BTW, the Wall of Water thing is easily solved. First, the only time people need a Wall of Water is when they are trying to rush up spring. They plant early, with varying degrees of success.

Just transplant into a gallon or larger container. Let them grow outside in the transitional month (for me it's April) and bring them in at night if a freeze is predicted. When all chance of freeze is over, THEN plant them outside.

All the best WoW and similar tricks with similar devices is not going to hurry spring up. Any tomato plant that needs a WoW was planted too early.

[bughunter99]

I used to call them earwig motels.

I have found a place to use them with success in my area though. I use them in my self-watering containers. I don't get the bug issue there and the plants seem to do really well with the protection from our spring winds which can be chilly.

Plants grown in these, in self-watering containers definitely beat the plants grown in the ground without them. This is probably partly due to more soil warmth in the containers as well as the more moderate night-time temps.

Other than the bug issues I have seen with them, the other issue is that if the plant is grown in them too long, their stems stay soft and if you take the WOW you really need to take care to get the plants hardened up to wind lest they snap.

Stacy

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by TomatoDon

Any tomato plant that needs a WoW was planted too early.

Spoken like someone who lives in Missouri.

What you call a transition month is what I call part of the prime growing season.

Here, I can get a good crop of many things, but most of them have to have help at one end of the season or the other. I usually end up rigging improvised clear plastic tents to protect big plants to salvage some parts of the September-October harvest, but it's much easier and better to use protection to get little plants started in the ground earlier, so that by the time it really warms up they're ready to go, and they're more likely to have produced a decent yield before first frost (around Labor Day) and especially before the first snow arrives -- sometimes in September, sometimes in October.

Almost everything I grow, I plant in bottles (mostly three liter clear water bottles with the bottoms cut out and the lids removed -- topped by a translucent plastic milk bottle with the bottom removed if extra protection or a sunshade is needed. A row of tomatoes is usually planted just south of a row of shoulder-to-shoulder filled 1-gallon milk bottles for early stage wind protection and nighttime temperature moderation. In the years when I am able to get the whole garden planted, quite a few people come walking along the road, stop, stare, whisper to their friends, etc. -- very entertaining -- but if they come by again later in the season they see why I do it that way.

I think that the overall best way to give a boost to tomatoes, here, is to plant them in bottles with an A frame type plastic tent over them. But there are enough who like WOWs that it seemed worth trying them. I suspect that if they prove to earn their keep it will be in odd spots where it is difficult to use other protection.

But it's always good to see what is working for others, as even ideas that don't work for me often suggest some other idea that does work here.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by kath

Bamboo stakes are cheap and fairly smooth- that's what I used this year.

Where do you find bamboo stakes in quantity?

[kath]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

Where do you find bamboo stakes in quantity?

I've purchased them at Agway, KMart & Wmart, but they're usually in a prepackaged plastic sleeve with 10 or 12 for about $3 iirc.

[clkeiper]

We have used them without any support, but as they age they sometimes develop leaks. If one channel leaks then the WOW tends to fall over/down/collapse. There are replacement tubes available for the leaky channels, btw. We have had them out very early before...like in March which is still really cold for us here. They protect through the frost and snow. I have never had a plant die/damaged inside from the cold, only collapsing. You can make the opening small or large to protect from the cold or open it up if it is getting too tall for the WOW, but it is still too early to safely remove it.

[RobinB]

I have used them for three years now. They have protected plants when the nighttime lows are still in the mid-20s. I agree with JLJ, it's absolutely vital to get things going so that when the heat comes the plants are ready to go. Our first frost is often in mid-September to early October. I usually can't plant out without protection until mid-June, so that's not enough for I want to do, usually. Here in the high desert in Nevada, we have huge temperature swings, even in Summer. A difference of 40-50° between the high and the low is not unusual. The WOWs seem to keep the roots/soil a more constant temperature. Last year, for the first time, I left my WOWs on all season. When the record-breaking heat came along, plants with them did better than those that didn't have protection, I think. We get some strong winds around here and I've never had them fall over. I usually have a piece of rebar in there though. The person who owned this house before us left quite a pile of 3' long rebar! Leaving them in a conical shape helps with that, and I usually pile up dirt around the bottom up the sides a few inches.

[goodwin]

Every time I read that 'wall of water in a 3 foot snow drift' I can't stop laughing. It has become an annual tradition since the topic comes up around this time of year and the link shows up as well. Truly a classic.
On a more serious note, we use the walls of water on the farm here and it gives us a real advantage.
Lee

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by kath

I've purchased them at Agway, KMart & Wmart, but they're usually in a prepackaged plastic sleeve with 10 or 12 for about $3 iirc.

Garden dept or elsewhere? About how long, do you remember? (That's a query about bamboo stake length, not about durability of your mental records.

[Lindalana]

I like WOW, have been using them for few years. Am a zone pusher and thus have to protect early plantings. I do put tomato cage inside. Since there is possibly cold but no snow slight opening on the top does not make big difference. I generally get my tomatoes about 2-3 weeks earlier this way which is great deal for zone 5.

[kath]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

Garden dept or elsewhere? About how long, do you remember? (That's a query about bamboo stake length, not about durability of your mental records.

Just saw this post- definitely in the garden department and I've got both 3' and 4' lengths but I don't remember which ones came from which store.

kath

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by kath

I've purchased them at Agway, KMart & Wmart, but they're usually in a prepackaged plastic sleeve with 10 or 12 for about $3 iirc.

Thanks much for the suggestion -- got several packages of a dozen for about 2.48 ea at Wmart -- late for this year (I hope!) but I'll be ready for next year!