Soil too alkaline

[bucksnort]

I recently added lime for tomato BER and now it's sending the PH up to 8. Is there a quick solution to bring it back down and will the high PH hurt the plants?

[Worth1]

Vinegar will do it.
I set an ortho dial and spray to the max setting and soak the soil.
it isn't permanent but it is fast.

[Worth1]

I want to add that a ph of 8 will cause slow growth and the plants cant take up nutrients.

You want it down around 6.5.
Worth

[b54red]

You do need to get it down quickly or you will suffer from iron deficiency and other deficiencies with a ph that high. I have suffered with some terrible iron deficiencies because of my ph being too high over the past 3 years. I lost a whole bed of tomatoes to it last year because I didn't correct it soon enough and had a whole row badly stunted from it this year but I did get it under control before it was too late. I used plain distilled vinegar in water and soaked the ground around the plants. I used from 1 TBLS to the gallon up to 2 oz. to the gallon but I applied it every week til I got the desired results.

Bill

[KarenO]

That's a problem alright, unfortunately I see a potential for issues with the vinegar treatment as outlined above. I think the moral of the story if there is one is that adding lime does not prevent BER.
It does alter the pH, as you have found and that is why I don't recommend it unless a soil test recommends application and then in the correct amount recommended by the soil test results applied per square foot at least 2-3 months before planting. I see dolomitic lime spoken of here on TV daily as just something to randomly add to any and all garden soil and potting mix and so I would like to caution all the newer members to be aware of this and to get a soil test done before adding significant amounts of any materials to the garden soil you have. Too much of any good thing can easily become a bad thing. Manure, lime, pine needles, mushroom compost, you name it, folks have put too much on their gardens.
For myself, I have never purchased any dolomitic lime in 25 years and to my knowledge neither did my parents who were excellent gardeners. It is not necessary in my garden per soil testing and it may well not be needed in yours either. For the record, never once have I had a tomato with BER in my garden or in a potted plant either. BER is multifactorial and unlikely to be related to calcium deficiency in the soil (which can be determined only by a soil test)
KO

[Worth1]

Well vinegar works for me and several otber folks here.
What would you perceive as a problem?

A long term solution would be sulfur.
The lime should have never been used to begin with but it is there now.
is this soil in raised beds a garden containers or what?

Worth

[paulgrow]

I agree with Worth, soil sulfur is your answer.

[KarenO]

I guess I mean it will be imprecise and temporary. getting acetic acid on the plants themselves will cause damage. people use vinegar to kill weeds and it works well for that purpose. My point was mainly geared toward others, especially new gardeners (who take every word they see here as gospel when it may not be) not to do the same thing. Agricultural lime has it's place in gardening but not in a random and "god and guess" fashion.
Karen

[Worth1]

If you do as I describe with the dial and spray you can soak the intire plant with it.
it dilutes the acid and it wont hurt the plants.
My soil was at 8 and I do this to keep it down.
I fill up the dial and spray with five percent vinegar and treat two 4x12 beds with it.
I wont use sulfur because in the fall I plant onions and I dont want them to be hot so I let the soil be on the alkaline side.
Worth

[b54red]

Another problem with sulfur is getting precisely the right amount. Put too much and you are back adding lime. With the vinegar it is temporary and if not overdone seems to work well. I use it on my peppers now because it helps release both iron and Phosphorous at least temporarily and it sure helps getting them to set more fruit. With tomatoes I only apply it if I see the very beginnings of iron deficiency. If I don't catch it early enough I have to use a foliar iron feed.

I am trying to lower my soil ph naturally by using cottonseed meal for my main fertilizer pre season and working in pine bark fines both of which are acidic.

Bill

[bucksnort]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Worth1, you didn't mention the water/vinagar ratio in your first post so I used 1 oz./gal. I'll apply it again in a week. KarenO, I'll have to agree with you about the soil test, I suppose it's like flying blind without one. I've been growing (trying to grow to be exact) but I still consider myself a novice. Lots of good info on this sit
Rufus Bucksnort

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by bucksnort

Thank you all for the suggestions. Worth1, you didn't mention the water/vinagar ratio in your first post so I used 1 oz./gal. I'll apply it again in a week. KarenO, I'll have to agree with you about the soil test, I suppose it's like flying blind without one. I've been growing (trying to grow to be exact) but I still consider myself a novice. Lots of good info on this sit
Rufus Bucksnort

I dont remember where highest setting is on the dial and spray like the most vinegar to water ratio or the second highest.
Sorry
I just went on line it looks like I am using about 6 to 8 oz of vinegar per gallon of water.





Worth

[Worth1]

Double post due to 3G on phone.

[b54red]

I just checked my ph this afternoon with a cheap ph meter and got readings between 7 and 6.5 so I am making headway with lowering the ph. Three years ago every bed was abouve 7.4 and one or two were near 8.

Bill

[zipcode]

So how temporary is adding acid? And is adding a strong base also temporary effect?
I'm thinking here of wood ashes which contains KOH, which is a strong base but also a good fertilizer.