Could It Be A Hybrid?

AlittleSalt · August 19, 2014

In 2012, I bought a package of Emerald Okra seeds. They are Ferry~Morse. I have looked countless times at that old seed pack and has no information about the seed being heirloom, open pollinated, organic, hybrid, or anything. So I looked up Emerald okra online. What I found online in 2012-13 from countless big-name sites was that Emerald okra is heirloom and ribbed.

I planted them in 2012 as my one-and-only crop of okra. The plants grew 6' tall with ribbed okra that needed picked every day for about 3 months. I finally let them mature and go to seed and saved seeds for 2013.

I planted those seeds in 2013, and again got 6' tall heavy producing plants, but there were differences. Out of 50 plants, around 40 of them produced the same kind of okra as the year before, but around 10 of the plants produced round smooth skinny pods. Oh, and the plants only produced ribbed or smooth pods -- never a mixture of both on the same plant.

The closest garden near mine is 1/4 mile away. It is basically hidden so I have no idea what they grow.

As I did in 2012: In late 2013, I let the okra go to seed and only chose the ribbed okra pods to save seed from. The ribbed variety tasted better.

This spring garden, I planted those seeds saved from 2013. I saved way too many seeds which I will get to soon. I planted the okra and it started growing, but this time, there were HUGE changes. The plants grew at the same rate as they did in 2012 and 13, but this year there was more rain (about 7 inches more in May and June) The plants grew to 2.5' up to 4' tall. At first, they produced okra that I had to gather daily, but half the plants were growing that round skinny okra. When frying the cut-and-battered round skinny okra - they would shrivel up really small and were basically tasteless.

I started thinking that maybe I had saved seeds from hybrid okra, and that the sites I looked into were wrong about Emerald okra being a heirloom variety?

Then things got even more odd. The plants stopped growing, started losing leaves, and the okra pods produced would be about 2 inches wide one day and the next day, they tripled in size and were rock hard. This was back around July 4th. Finally, I gave up and took them to the burning pile.

I planted more of those 2013 saved seeds in a raised bed without soil improvements just to see what happens. I planted the seeds for 4 plants July 1, 2014, and today (An hour ago when I looked at it), 1 plant survived. It is a scrawny plant about 2' tall and has one okra pod on it 3" long, smooth and round, and hard as a rock.

On August 10, 2014 - I planted all the saved seeds from 2013 in a different part of my garden with 4 years of soil improvements. I over planted it big-time and it looks like just about every seed is coming up now. It might sound like I am being stubborn, but what I am trying to see is if maybe the extra rainfall had something to do with this year's failed spring okra?

And then, tonight's internet searches happened to bring even more questions:

Baker's Creek, Emerald okra, "58 days. A Campbell Soup Co. variety from 1950; early, round, smooth, deep-green tasty pods; high quality and early, tall plants."

Victory Seeds, Emerald Okra, 55 days — The pods are thick walled, round, slender, long, spineless, and a deep green color. The plants are semi-dwarf with large leaves.

Google image search for emerald okra https://www.google.com/search?q=emer...w=1152&bih=574

Could Emerald okra actually be a hybrid from 64 years ago that is still unstable at F3?

AlittleSalt · August 19, 2014

Edit is not working on this thread for me.

Where it says, "Then things got even more odd. The plants stopped growing, started losing leaves, and the okra pods produced would be about 2 inches wide "Edited part

I meant 2 inches long- not wide)" one day and the next day, they tripled in size and were rock hard. This was back around July 4th. Finally, I gave up and took them to the burning pile."

August 19, 2014	#1
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Could It Be A Hybrid? In 2012, I bought a package of Emerald Okra seeds. They are Ferry~Morse. I have looked countless times at that old seed pack and has no information about the seed being heirloom, open pollinated, organic, hybrid, or anything. So I looked up Emerald okra online. What I found online in 2012-13 from countless big-name sites was that Emerald okra is heirloom and ribbed. I planted them in 2012 as my one-and-only crop of okra. The plants grew 6' tall with ribbed okra that needed picked every day for about 3 months. I finally let them mature and go to seed and saved seeds for 2013. I planted those seeds in 2013, and again got 6' tall heavy producing plants, but there were differences. Out of 50 plants, around 40 of them produced the same kind of okra as the year before, but around 10 of the plants produced round smooth skinny pods. Oh, and the plants only produced ribbed or smooth pods -- never a mixture of both on the same plant. The closest garden near mine is 1/4 mile away. It is basically hidden so I have no idea what they grow. As I did in 2012: In late 2013, I let the okra go to seed and only chose the ribbed okra pods to save seed from. The ribbed variety tasted better. This spring garden, I planted those seeds saved from 2013. I saved way too many seeds which I will get to soon. I planted the okra and it started growing, but this time, there were HUGE changes. The plants grew at the same rate as they did in 2012 and 13, but this year there was more rain (about 7 inches more in May and June) The plants grew to 2.5' up to 4' tall. At first, they produced okra that I had to gather daily, but half the plants were growing that round skinny okra. When frying the cut-and-battered round skinny okra - they would shrivel up really small and were basically tasteless. I started thinking that maybe I had saved seeds from hybrid okra, and that the sites I looked into were wrong about Emerald okra being a heirloom variety? Then things got even more odd. The plants stopped growing, started losing leaves, and the okra pods produced would be about 2 inches wide one day and the next day, they tripled in size and were rock hard. This was back around July 4th. Finally, I gave up and took them to the burning pile. I planted more of those 2013 saved seeds in a raised bed without soil improvements just to see what happens. I planted the seeds for 4 plants July 1, 2014, and today (An hour ago when I looked at it), 1 plant survived. It is a scrawny plant about 2' tall and has one okra pod on it 3" long, smooth and round, and hard as a rock. On August 10, 2014 - I planted all the saved seeds from 2013 in a different part of my garden with 4 years of soil improvements. I over planted it big-time and it looks like just about every seed is coming up now. It might sound like I am being stubborn, but what I am trying to see is if maybe the extra rainfall had something to do with this year's failed spring okra? And then, tonight's internet searches happened to bring even more questions: Baker's Creek, Emerald okra, "58 days. A Campbell Soup Co. variety from 1950; early, round, smooth, deep-green tasty pods; high quality and early, tall plants." Victory Seeds, Emerald Okra, 55 days — The pods are thick walled, round, slender, long, spineless, and a deep green color. The plants are semi-dwarf with large leaves. Google image search for emerald okra https://www.google.com/search?q=emer...w=1152&bih=574 Could Emerald okra actually be a hybrid from 64 years ago that is still unstable at F3?

August 19, 2014	#2
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Edit is not working on this thread for me. Where it says, "Then things got even more odd. The plants stopped growing, started losing leaves, and the okra pods produced would be about 2 inches wide "Edited partI meant 2 inches long- not wide)" one day and the next day, they tripled in size and were rock hard. This was back around July 4th. Finally, I gave up and took them to the burning pile."