What Happened to Sapho?

[peebee]

I happened upon a 2003 Organic Gardening magazine I forgot I had, and it was quite interesting to see what was in vogue over 10 years ago.

Sapho (yes, only 1 "p") was OG's staff pick for cherry tomatoes that year. A hybrid with a nice balance of tangy & sweet flavor, meaty texture & few seeds, does not crack, has semi-compact vines, bred to tolerate crown & root rot, according to the description. Does well in pots. Sounds like a winner to me! Yet this variety seems to have fallen out of favor since then, as almost no one carries this anymore. A search here only yielded one post, and it was only as an offering for a trade, unless my search was not done well enough.

Has anyone grown this, and what can you tell me about it? Just curious as to why it was so highly regarded by OG.

Thanks.

[peebee]

I'm bumping this post of mine up because no one ever commented on it and I just thought it odd that a tomato so highly thought of by OG magazine should just disappear, never to be heard of again. Anyone?

[Gardeneer]

Well, if you want a discussion to get going , I would suggest that you post pictures of the fruit/plant and tell us exactly what do YOU know about it. JMO

Gardeneer

[AlittleSalt]

Peebee, I have never seen it sold around here as seeds or transplants.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Well, if you want a discussion to get going , I would suggest that you post pictures of the fruit/plant and tell us exactly what do YOU know about it. JMO

Gardeneer

https://njaes.rutgers.edu/tomato-var...iety.asp?Sapho

I did the search two ways and the above came when I added seeds and at the bottom of that page it said 2015 and there was a place at the top where you could ask questions.

I don't think they are actually selling the seeds but may be able to tell you where you can.

Hope that helps a bit in terms of a discussion, but right now I don't know what could be discussed except to get seeds since the traits of the variety are clearly stated.

IT's been an hour since I started thispost so if it's a duplicate of another one I apologize/

Carolyn

[Starlight]

PeeBee .. maybe this will help. If you go here:

http://tomodori.com/tomatoes.php?VARtomate=Sapho

If you look at the little box at the top it says that there are 4 vendors that sell the seed. I am not familiar with any of the companies.

This place hasn't updated their website since 2010 and I know that Westlake , Ohio has grown and changed over the years since I was last there, but they have a phone number and an email addy and maybe you could try and contact them.

http://www.canterburycreekgardens.co...sting-2010.php

Here is a pic from off of Amazon.com. I've never shopped on Amazon, so I don't know how you would find out if the seed is still listed or not.

http://www.amazon.com/Davids-Hybrid-...ges/B0031YYZ6M

found Davids bog selling spot. You could look around it and see if there a contact number or email addy.

http://buytomatoseedsaf3.blogspot.co...-sapho-10.html

[FLRedHeart]

None of those 4-5 year old websites are likely to be active, but there's no harm in trying.

Often, people ask, where did my old favoite hybrid go? The most common answer is that the company that developed it no longer offers it. Reasons vary but in this case Johnny's had picked it up, so if you want to call a prior distributor, call them...at least their site is updated.

Whether the original producer maintains the parent lines and can offer it again only they might tell you. So in the mean time, we are left with scavenging up old seeds and making a last ditch effort to keep it alive in some form like Carolyn attempted with Ramapo or, seeing if we like it's replacement offered by the company or institution that was responsible for it.

In this case a slightly smaller oval cherry seems a good try, and, if not, contact the company that released it Gautier, in France:

Apero F1

Cheers

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by FLRedHeart

None of those 4-5 year old websites are likely to be active, but there's no harm in trying.

Often, people ask, where did my old favoite hybrid go? The most common answer is that the company that developed it no longer offers it. Reasons vary but in this case Johnny's had picked it up, so if you want to call a prior distributor, call them...at least their site is updated.

Whether the original producer maintains the parent lines and can offer it again only they might tell you. So in the mean time, we are left with scavenging up old seeds and making a last ditch effort to keep it alive in some form like Carolyn attempted with Ramapo or, seeing if we like it's replacement offered by the company or institution that was responsible for it.

In this case a slightly smaller oval cherry seems a good try, and, if not, contact the company that released it Gautier, in France:

Apero F1

Cheers

First, the wesite I linked to from NJ did have 2015 at the btooom and I dothink it's wroth it to ask questions about seeds where it says to ask questions.

About my dehybridizing Ramapo F1. It wasn't just an attempt, it was a very successful attempt and was stable at the F3 as many who got the seeds, particulrly Barkeater, who was a commercial tomato grower in NJ and knew the original well. But Ramapo F1 had two parents, both known, same as for Big Boy and Better Boy, both F1's as to two parents each.

My point being that Sapho was/is a much later developed F1 variety and I would expect multiple parental inputs for that one which would make dehybridizing it much more difficult IMO.

Carolyn

[peebee]

Thanks for everyone searching for descriptions and seeds, yes I already did that back when I posted; I just wanted to know if anyone actually grew it and what they thought of it.
Apparently, no one has grown it and maybe because it was not considered very good. No interest was generated here at TVille when OG magazine raved about it. Just curious because in its heyday(way before 2003) this magazine was practically a bible for gardeners across the US. I did not have a vegetable garden then but went to the library monthly to read the mag. By the time I subscribed in the early 2000's it had changed drastically. Still, it's fun to read old issues to see what was new then.

[FLRedHeart]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

First, the wesite I linked to from NJ did have 2015 at the btooom and I dothink it's wroth it to ask questions about seeds where it says to ask questions.

About my dehybridizing Ramapo F1. It wasn't just an attempt, it was a very successful attempt and was stable at the F3 as many who got the seeds, particulrly Barkeater, who was a commercial tomato grower in NJ and knew the original well. But Ramapo F1 had two parents, both known, same as for Big Boy and Better Boy, both F1's as to two parents each.

My point being that Sapho was/is a much later developed F1 variety and I would expect multiple parental inputs for that one which would make dehybridizing it much more difficult IMO.

Carolyn

peebee,

I'd be glad to grow it. There are informations beyond the basics in the Rutgers page that might interest you, whether none of us grew it or not. Sapho F1 participated in a comparison of 15 tomatoes in a consumer focused evaluation in France in 2006. 10 were 'heirlooms' (though Green Zebra was there, so was a version of "Pink Brandywine"), 3 were improved "heirlooms" like Ugly Ripe (TM), and two were commercial F1 hybrids..one of those latter was Sapho. The varieties were blindly tested by a trained amateur panel for evaluation of taste, texture and firmness, and in the lab, sugar, carotenoid and acid content.

Sapho beat them all for taste and texture, but was on the soft side of the median for firmness. It also had the highest sugar (brix) and acid of all independently tested in the lab. Unfortunately it was on the bottom few regarding growth vigor, but had the only perfectly healthy plants and roots at the finish of the study when rated.

for more info, see:
http://www.semencespaysannes.org/bdf..._anciennes.pdf


Carolyn,

I meant te website comment geared to Starlight's sites, though I see now it sounds like I meant the Rutgers link too. Rutgers is in a different class, being educational and I thought it was good to have the description . I don't know what much more anyone in the US could say regarding availability. There's no harm in asking anything more I think we agree!

Rutgers' reply if someone takes the time to research it: "We last updated our website on Sapho in 2012 when it came to our attention that Johnny's ran out of stock and the seeds were no longer available."

"We put copyright 2015 and a link for questions in the frame of everything on the website. We have no further information on Sapho."

My thinking is that Starlight's finds of seed sources possibly could have old seed sitting around but it would be 5 years old at least, and they likely got it from Johnny's too. It might be a source to make an OP version of the hybrid. But Johnny's is the best US source of info. They will say, 'we can't get it anymore'. However, to cut to the chase, I posted the company that produced the variety. It is Gautier Semences near Marseille. You can contact them too as they invte questions. Since they bred it, I think they re the most knowledgeable:
http://www.gautiersemences.com/contact.php

About Ramapo, I agree with everything you say. Still, Gautier might not have put as much effort since it is at least 15 years old and they weren't as a huge company in a commune in the south of France.

Excellent to hear Ramapo was successful at F3 for those that trials. Stability @ F3 with good traits is a dream come true. I mentioned your successful effort, to emphasize Sapho is commercially extinct, as happens with many hybrids when more profitable ones hit the market. At this point the chance of getting it seems vanishing to me, for nostalgia's sake, but still in the window of opportunity isn't closed. It has a very interesting name. A post in the TV wanted's might be able to scare some up. So many seed savers it would be a nice blast from the past.

Cheers