Effect of Sunshine on Ripening & Flavor

[greggf]

I went to NOAA and printed out their "Ranking of Cities Based On % Annual Possible Sunshine."

You'll be glad to know that the city in the U.S. with the most days of sunshine is Yuma, AZ, followed by Redding, CA and Las Vegas.

Slightly below midway down the list are Boston and New York/Central Park, with 58% ave. % poss. sunshine.

Farther down, at 54% and 53% respectively, are Chicago and Albany.

And here are some cities with less than 50% poss. sunshine days, making them the cloudiest, most overcast cities in the U.S.:

Rochester, NY
Binghamton, NY
Burlington, VT
Buffalo, NY
Portland, OR
Syracuse, NY
Pittsburgh, PA
and, dead cloudiest, Seattle

Now, what are the ramifications of this for tomato growing? How important is sunshine - as opposed to growing season length, temperature, and so on - to proper fruit ripening and good flavor development? How nasty are lots of overcast days in terms of tomatoes?

All of my TV stations come from Syracuse, so you can see my interest in this subject.

By the way, there seems to be a nice broad band of cities in the midwest with not-too-much sun and not-too-little sun: Iowa, Nebraska, Indiana, southern Ohio. I assume it's not a coincidence that that's where good tomatoes come from.

I'm also not surprised that that's where Earl lives, hehhehheh.

=gregg=

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...ccd/pctpos.txt

[carolyn137]

Photosynethesis operates maximally with full sun and it's responsible for making the energy compounds needed for plant growth and fruit development and maturation.

So less photosynthesis, less energy molecules made, less of all the above, in a relative sense.

Full sun is not needed for fruit ripening even when there is full sun. Just think of all the fruits that ripen nicely when there's a heavy foliage cover that covers the fruits completely.

Or picture those almost ripe fruits that you might take to the house to ripen on a kitchen counter that's not near a window. They ripen just fine.

Folks are cautioned to NOT put fruits to ripen on a windowsill in the sun, but that's b'c they can get dehydrated b'c they are no longer attached to the vine and can get water that way.

[greggf]

So it makes a difference, but it's not the end of the world?

=gregg=

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by greggf

So it makes a difference, but it's not the end of the world?

=gregg=

I'd say that's a fair statement Gregg, but I just started a new sci fi by Larry Niven, one of my faves, and the kind of stuff they're growing in about 2400 C.E. doesn't need any photosynthesis or much else.

[Worth1]

As usual I’m confused, ‘Do the numbers under the year’s section mean how long they have been collecting data on sunshine?
If so, ‘How can they compare average annual sun shine with a city that has data for the last 10 years to one that has had data collected for the last 100 years?

They also don’t take into account for the different latitudes these cities happen to be in.
Do they take into account that the sun is stronger in the south than in the north?
Do they consider the fact that in Anchorage the sun is up almost all day during the summer?
What effect does humidity have on the plants?
Case in point jalapeño peppers.
Folks go out and buy peppers mostly on one characteristic, hot or mild.

The ones that do the best here in this part of Texas are the ones that were bred in Mexico for the hot and humid climate they have there.
But the ones that are available here are bred for the hot dry western part of the state and in New Mexico.

For those that care, peppers don’t need sunshine to turn red and yes the folks in Mexico do eat green peppers.

Tomatoes do best where I live with a little shade in the evening and in the spring when there are cooler temps and a few more clouds.
I have found no effect on flavor or growth of said tomato with the amount of sun shine they get on a daily basis.
It’s still pretty bright outside even with a little cloud cover.
The heat is the most important factor to contend with here.

Just a few points to think about and in no way meant to be in disagreement.
Nice thread.

Worth

[feldon30]

But I've seen plenty of comments regarding differences in taste depending on cloud cover during ripening, especially the specific breaker stage (I guess there are 4 now?) or at first blush.

I would imagine that if a plant is receiving a surplus of sunlight energy, it won't mind "sweetening up" the fruit. If the plant is only getting an average amount of sunlight energy, it won't spend quite so much effort trying to get each fruit "perfect". But I could be pulling that out of thin air.

[Worth1]

Surplus
(1) (Excess amount)
An amount remaining after the original purpose has been served or the original requirement met.
(2) (Additional to requirements)
Not required to meet existing needs, or left over after these have been met.

I guess this opens up the possibility of some of us artificially filtering or shading tomato plants of the same variety in full sun in the same spot with no other factors involved.
Let them ripen on the vine and have a blind taste test to see if there is any difference.

I don’t think there will be.

The only difference that I have been able to tell at the store with so called, (vine ripened in the sun) tomatoes is the price.

I think soil (nutrients) water (and the ability for the roots to take up water from different types of soil) humidity and temperature play a more important roll in flavor of a particular variety than sunlight.
When the heat gets up there, it doesn’t matter how much light you have the plants stop taking in water and start to wilt.

Worth

[remy]

The percent of sunshine is for year round. If you take into account summer only, Buffalo gets more on average than other eastern cities.
http://www4.bfn.org/wnysea/know/sunshine.html
I have no clue how much this affects affect the tomatoes, but I think they grow pretty nice here: )
Remy

[Lee]

I think soil is the major environmental variable that impacts taste. I would suspect significantly more than sunlight/cloudy days at ripening...etc...

Sun however has a major impact on yield. And when I say
major, I mean exponential variation. My lousy 5 hours of sun yields maybe 6lbs on a plant, whereas my dad's 6-7 hours yields 20~30lbs on the same variety from the same seed planted in similar soil at the same time in the same state.....

Now if that sweetgum tree that's shading the garden 3 hours in the morning will just die and fall over... I'll be in good shape!

Lee

[PaulF]

I wonder if the timing of the sunshine is a factor? In my yard, one garden spot has morning direct sun from 7AM to about 1PM, more or less as the summer progresses,etc. Another spot has direct sun from 11AM to 6PM. If memory serves the plants with morning sun and afternoon dappled semi-shade did better than the morning shade and afternoon sun. I'll bet the PM heat and sun combo has an effect on production and plant health. No idea about taste as the tomatoes as they are harvested are mixed and have variety ID only. Another thing to watch next year.

[feldon30]

Protection from afternoon sun has been preached in Texas before re: growing tomatoes.

[Worth1]

I sure am glad my proposed growing spot is protected from the afternoon sun.
I have a lot of morning sun places picked out.
Better they get the sun when it’s still (relatively) cool around here.
I use to grow on the east side of a big old cedar elm they did great.

Worth

[dcarch]

Plant growth and maturity is effected by :

1. Length of light exposure
2. Intensity of light exposure
3. Quality (color) of light.

In the morning (dawn) and evening (dusk), sunlight is mostly red due to deflection of long waves and particles in the air. In the middle of the day, sunray has much more blue in its color. If you live in an area surrounded by tall trees or tall buildings, you will get mostly bluish/white sunlight.

dcarch

[Plantersville]

Speaking of shade........everytime I watch the movie "The Godfather" I see that Marlon Brando has a sheet covering his tomatoes when he dies in his tomato patch. Dont know if he keeps the shade up all day or just puts it up in the afternoon. I know, I know, this is a movie but someone must have known something to put it in a movie.
All I can say is that I cant think of a better way to go than passing away in the 'mater patch.

[Lilypon]

Of course my location is way out of the ballpark here but I must say with that at summer solstice my garden gets sunshine from 4 am to 10 pm and my tomato plants were loaded last year (Cherokee Purple, Arkansas Traveler, Delicious etc) all had at least 20 to 30 tomatoes per plant. Unfortunately a late seeding, due to gallbladder surgery. only allowed about 5 tomatoes to fully ripen on each long season plant. Edited to say they all tasted wonderful (except the short season Stupice)

I was pretty proud of my patch considering we had 2 weeks of temps that were over a hundred and another week that was in the mid to high nineties (the nights didn't cool either....we got the humidity from the Gulf of Mexico). Much of the summer was in the high 80's. I watered that garden every 2 days (and thank goodness for the river beside it).