Anyone knows "Or gran borghese"

[nicollas]

Hi,

i've seen on the catalogue of a french nursery a tomato name "Or gran borghese" and it is said to be an improvement of Principe Borghese, but after a quick search on the net, there is no much info and all info come from french website, which makes me dubious

http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/140134...-borghese.html

Quote:
amélioration de l’ancienne variété PRINCE BORGHESE, variété italienne aux fruits de la grosseur et de la forme d'un œuf, 40/60 grammes, rouge écarlate, et se terminant par une pointe. Fruits charnus pour la confection de salades, des sauces et des conserves en boîtes de tomates entières. En Italie, on arrache les pieds entiers couverts de leurs fruits et on les suspend à l'abri du froid, pour cueillir des tomates fraîches tout l'hiver. Résistances : V, F.
Quote:
improvement of the old variety PRINCE BORGHESE Italian variety with fruit size and shape of an egg, 40/60 grams, scarlet, and ending in a point. Fleshy fruits for making salads, sauces and canned whole tomatoes boxes. In Italy, tear whole feet covered with fruit and suspended sheltered from cold to pick fresh tomatoes all winter. resistances: V, F

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by nicollas

Hi,

i've seen on the catalogue of a french nursery a tomato name "Or gran borghese" and it is said to be an improvement of Principe Borghese, but after a quick search on the net, there is no much info and all info come from french website, which makes me dubious

http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/140134...-borghese.html

Quote:
amélioration de l’ancienne variété PRINCE BORGHESE, variété italienne aux fruits de la grosseur et de la forme d'un œuf, 40/60 grammes, rouge écarlate, et se terminant par une pointe. Fruits charnus pour la confection de salades, des sauces et des conserves en boîtes de tomates entières. En Italie, on arrache les pieds entiers couverts de leurs fruits et on les suspend à l'abri du froid, pour cueillir des tomates fraîches tout l'hiver. Résistances : V, F.
Quote:
improvement of the old variety PRINCE BORGHESE Italian variety with fruit size and shape of an egg, 40/60 grams, scarlet, and ending in a point. Fleshy fruits for making salads, sauces and canned whole tomatoes boxes. In Italy, tear whole feet covered with fruit and suspended sheltered from cold to pick fresh tomatoes all winter. resistances: V, F

I read the french first,not very well, without seeing your translation which was about the same as I had from the french, I also went to the site to read.

It looks to me since the variety is not said to be an F1 hybrid, that all they've done, or whoever did it, has introduced a gene for race 1 of F ( fusarium) and also verticillium.

Also noted was that is was used as a winter variety of which there are many in both Italy and spain, by hanging the fruits inside where it's cold.

If it's a winter variety, as I said above, there are many varieties, and I'll end by asking why you are especially interested in this one.

Carolyn

[nicollas]

(There was some pb after i've previewed the initial message, and the editor was empty when i tried to edit it, so i left it in this less-than-ideal form.)

I'm interested by principe borghese for drying it. I've grown it two years ago so i have seeds, but i did not dry it by the time. I've seen since that the flavor is very good as dried tomatoes. But i saw that new cultivar in the catalog and was wondering what was those improvements. And the little results on the net was not helping. You're suggesting that it is disease resistance.

Principe seems quite unique to me as a small fruited tomato that is meaty and that has a taste that develops when dried, but if you know any that could fit this niche, please tell me. Thanks

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by nicollas

(There was some pb after i've previewed the initial message, and the editor was empty when i tried to edit it, so i left it in this less-than-ideal form.)

I'm interested by principe borghese for drying it. I've grown it two years ago so i have seeds, but i did not dry it by the time. I've seen since that the flavor is very good as dried tomatoes. But i saw that new cultivar in the catalog and was wondering what was those improvements. And the little results on the net was not helping. You're suggesting that it is disease resistance.

Principe seems quite unique to me as a small fruited tomato that is meaty and that has a taste that develops when dried, but if you know any that could fit this niche, please tell me. Thanks

Yes, I am suggesting that it's no different from what you have been growing, just that the V and F bred in, and even if you have problems with either Verticillium and Fusarium, just those two genes are not going to help much.

Here's a link from Tania's wonderful database about it and she indicates good for canning and drying.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

I'm one who does not dry tomatoes, so I can't be helpful in that regard, except there are lots of other meaty paste varieties that are used for drying and do have good tastel

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...Paste_Tomatoes

Above is a link to paste varieties and you can see that there are many of them. I could go through the list and see if i could make a short list of ones that I know people do dry or you can stay with what you already have seeds for/

Carolyn

[nicollas]

Thanks Carolyn, so i'll stick to Principe Borghese this year, but i would definitely expand the horizon on drying cultivars. The main problem is that i'm looking for small tomatoes to dry whole or cut in halves, and it is not common, as paste tomatoes are usually big, and small tomatoes are usually juicy.

[nicollas]

Maybe Grappoli d'Inverno could do it
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...li_d%27Inverno

[Stvrob]

Anyone knows "Or gran borghese"

No, but if you hum a few bars I'll jump right in.

[Father'sDaughter]

I wound up using Heidi as a drying tomato -- small paste, very dense and meaty, and dry. And, the plants themselves are very compact. I just sliced them in half before drying.

I have tried to dry both Principe Borghese and Grappoli d'Inverno and found them to be too seedy.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

I wound up using Heidi as a drying tomato -- small paste, very dense and meaty, and dry. And, the plants themselves are very compact. I just sliced them in half before drying.

I have tried to dry both Principe Borghese and Grappoli d'Inverno and found them to be too seedy.

And I would agree with you that Heidi would be an excellent choice.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Heidi

Carolyn

[nicollas]

Thanks for "Heidi", i'll give it a try !

Also "Blush" seems interesting to dry, but with a more fruity taste even when dried

[Fusion_power]

Nicollas, there is an old variety that Chuck Wyatt distributed called Borgo Cellano. It is a bit larger than Principe Borghese and is an indeterminate plant. It was specifically grown to make dried tomatoes and tomato sauce. It is a richer flavored variety by far than most other tomatoes that are adapted for drying. Sandhill has seed or if you prefer, I can send you a few.

Here is Chuck's original description:

Borgo Cellano- 80 days - Indeterminate Regular leafed 2-3 oz. red. I am proud to be able to offer this variety which is one of the oldest tomatoes known to man. It is a wonderfully thick walled paste or saladette type but is best known as the ultimate drying variety. After being grown there for over 500 years Borgo Cellano came from the Italian village of the same name to Steve Parton of Melbourne, Australia to myself.

[nicollas]

Thanks, very interesting. Never heard of it before. The variety is available in France so i'll get some seeds to try.

You say that the flavor is best than most drying tomatoes, have you tested/tasted it yourself at the dried stage ? Because principe is rather bland fresh but is reported to have a very good taste drier, so taste when fresh is not an indication of the taste of the final product (but it dont hurt if the variety is suitable to eat fresh!).