Severe leaf curl?

[BigVanVader]

This has me a little worried. More than one plant is doing this, just the new growth on some. Only one row has this issue. Looked more severe to me than regular leaf curl but wasn't sure if it can look that bad.

[RayR]

There's numerous reasons for leaf roll, some varieties will do it for no apparent reason and grow normally or it could be stress from too much water or not enough, soil PH issues, soil pathogens ,viral infection, herbicide damage etc.... It looks like you have them planted in native soil? The new growth looks very distorted which I find the most troubling symptom.. Maybe someone else can better recognize the issue

[BigVanVader]

Thanks Ray, yes in native soil amended with rabbit poop and mulched with a mixture of hay/leaves. Its odd because not all plants are showing it and it just started. At first I thought spider mites but I dont see any.

[greyghost]

I'm certainly no expert but it looks like herbicide damage to me. I had that happen to me twice-2,4d from a neighbor's backpack overspray. The
leaves resembled fiddle leaf fern foliage. There are also herbicides used on
grass pastures and hay fields (excluding alfalfa which would be susceptible).
If your hay is 100% grass hay, I'd suspect that. (The same goes for using grass
clippings as mulch or for compost from a lawn treated with a 2,4d herbicide.)
The first time it happened to us, tomato plants had a slight curl on top-you
could smell a chemical in the air-I suspect it volatized. The second time and
more devastating, was earlier in the season and I suspect wind drift--neighbor now uses a pelletized herbicide.

You could remove the mulch and hope for the best. You could also soak some hay in water and use that to water leftover seedlings which will quickly exhibit
the same leaf curl if the hay is contaminated. If you haven't any seedlings left,
you could plant a couple of bean seeds in the soil taken from your worst curl
plant and use hay soaked water-if the bean leaves are cupped, at least you'd
know the status of the hay and know if the hay is the culprit. Is there anything about that one row that might give you a clue (such as a different mulch, compost, exposure to wind drift from a neighbor)?

Search the site for herbicide damage-a lot of information on this site and
great photos to compare to your damage. After reading so many articles
on contaminated hay, I check our horse's composted manure before using in the garden-we're lucky to have one source for grass hay. I've never found signs
of contamination but did come close to using a similar herbicide in pastures
to eliminate buttercup (there were label warnings not to use manure for gardens) shortly before I had my experience with overspray. Also look for articles with photos on killer compost to compare with your damage.

Let us know what you find out-good luck with your plants.

[BigVanVader]

Its always a possibility but the hay was feed for rabbits so I wouldn't think they would have bought sprayed hay for feed? I will soak some and test a seedling to be sure though. Thanks!

[Blueaussi]

I see something like that quite often early in the season. I have taken plants to the extension service, and they feel it is herbicide damage. I'll try and attach one of their reports.

I don't know who is using the herbicides. I don't use anything but vinegar-type sprays unless it's poison ivy. I've spoken with my neighbors about it, and most don't use any herbicides, and the one who does tries to do it in the early spring before I set any plants out.

[BigVanVader]

yes after looking at pics it does appear to be that, will they recover and produce normally? If not I may remove the hay and replant new plants.

[greyghost]

Van, I suspect they wouldn't know or even suspect that's a possibility. I
always assumed rabbits ate alfalfa pellets and their "pellets" wouldn't be
contaminated. It could be that they buy a bale at a time and from different
sources (as supplied to an Agway, for instance) so that the contamination
may or may not be present in all their feed/manure. The soil at your worst affected tomato plant might be interesting to check as well as any hay or pellets at an affected plant VS. your general supply of hay.

Even having horses for 40 yrs as an adult, I was surprised to find out that
grass hay may be treated with an herbicide. In fact, we came close to treating
pastures with Forefront for Butter cup. I've since purchased grass hay at
Agway, and after asking if they knew if it was herbicide treated, be told that
"it isn't used on hay.". Ironically, it was an Agway that we discussed having them
treat out pastures with Forefront before we discovered manure couldn't be used
for 5 years or so on a garden. Some of these herbicides have half lives much
longer than even 2,4d based herbicide or weed/feed.

Horse people usually demand weed free hay-I suspect many feel it's due to
heavy seeding, fertilizing rather than herbicides (I know I did).

I will have to say that in the 40 or so years I've purchased hay, I've never had herbicide contamination. It came from a neighbor; we merely said we lost some
plants to 2,4d--he said he never used it (I feel he used Weed-be-gone in
a backpack). I'm sure he checked his bottle and the next year, he started applying granular. I've had so many people tell me that they never have associated treated grass with mulch or compost that damage/killed tomato
or other garden plants. In the past several years, there have been so many reports on the internet and discussions on forums that people are starting
to realize the danger in purchased or free composts/hay/manure supplies.

[BigVanVader]

Yeah, I try to be selective and usually ask if they know if it has been treated. The place I get it is a rabbit sanctuary and they feed them hay and pellets and use hay as a bedding material as well. They keep them in huge barn type buildings with wire buried under the dirt and just let them mingle so when I clean it it is all mixed together. One would assume they would never buy sprayed hay but apparently they did. I am so upset that I brought poison into my own garden. It pains me to no end. It seems nowadays everything is poisoned in some way or another and its getting harder and harder to trust anyone giving away free material for gardening. Thanks for all the help folks, I will now go call the owners and tell them they are poisoning their rabbits and my garden

[greyghost]

Mine was from overspray and I suspect that it's the least dangerous. The first episode happened during the summer and I think volatiles caused a slight curling/bending--I could smell the chemical. The second episode was a result of overspray carried on wind. I saw him spray up and into our pasture-the land drops down into his yard. With a northwest wind-it would have done directly on my plants. I lost many but several recovered and did produce. I think it
depends on how much material you used. If the rabbit pellets are contaminated as well, and worked into the planting hole as well as top dressed and contaminated hay used as mulch, it'll be more serious. I'd give it a few more days but be prepared to replant, not in the same spot, if I saw tightening curl
or any new growth continuing to be affected. If you can, I'd pot up extra plants
so they don't get root bound and be prepared to plant as soon as I felt these won't recover. In your photos, they look like they may have a chance to recover
but not if contaminated "pellets" were worked into the soil-they'll continue to
worsen then
.
If you have a good bit of ground, I'd definitely plant your reserve plants and
observe curled contaminated plants. If you find the soil, pellets, or hay affects a seedling, I'd make sure I removed as much of that material as possible. If it were plain 2,4d, the soil should be ok by next year--with these stronger herbicides, it could take several years (from what I read) before you could grow susceptible crops these-especially if you rototill. Google a list--when it happened to me, vine crops such as zucchini were affected. We know that beans and peas are affected.

If your hay tests ok, think outside the box. It's not unreasonable that bunny was
fed fresh grass from a treated lawn for a while. Good luck-let us know what you find out. I'm glad that only some of your plants are affected-I hope no new victims.

[greyghost]

Van, I didn't see your last post. I suspect they get some free hay as well
and probably from all sorts of sources--maybe even dried lawn grass.
It'll be difficult for them to assess the hay they get but at least they'll know
the manure isn't safe for gardens. Perhaps, it could be spread on lawns
to kill weeds-that's what I'd do if I found contamination in our horse manure-
it's all collected into large composting bins. But maybe "test" it first (you could
also take samples to an extension if one is nearby).

I was heart broken when it happened to me, all one of a kind heirlooms.
I was frantic at first (you're never sure what happened at first, dug up a couple
of plants-picked up a huge bag of potting soil wrong and have a torn triceps
that I choose to live with). It is a valuable learning episode, especially if
you would like to use horse manure--cows tend to be fed lower quality
hay; contamination is more likely from high-end horse stables). I think
most rabbit manure would be safe because they usually eat alfalfa and
are kept on shavings but I can see where you can't assume that. Every year
we see new cases on forums. I know I'm much more careful now although
I sometimes feed a high quality 50/50 alfalfa/ timothy hay cube to my horse
thinking the blend would never be sprayed. Then, I realized they may be mixing
batches of alfalfa will batches of treated timothy. We recently lost a Cushings horse who only ate a special timothy cube-I was aware it could be contaminated but never thought "outside the box" with the cubes I feed Chance.

I also cringe when I see people getting compost from community sources.

It looks like just limited damage in your garden, I hope it stays that way and
this will just be valuable lesson on your learning curve as well as the sanctuary's.

[Blueaussi]

Remember that it's not necessarily the hay. It could be drift from some distance away.

[BigVanVader]

The problem with that is these plants are in the middle of the rows and the outer most rows are looking fine. So I can only assume it was that hay.

[BigVanVader]

Wanted to update: After speaking with the rabbit farm they assured me that there hay is pesticide free as they get it all from one place and it is sold specifically for animal feed. I still wasn't sure I believed them but then once I got to thinking I remembered that the location those plants are in was where I had burned all the brush from the tree trimming I had to do when we bought this place. I cleaned up all the ash/coals before putting down the manure etc but I guess the soil chemistry was altered to the point that it is causing sever leaf curl. I did some reading on it and it seems I should have removed a few inches of soil before planting there....oh well, so far it is only about 5 plants that look like the one pictured. Live and learn, thanks for all the help in figuring this out and be careful about planting where you burn brush!

[greyghost]

Van, just a thought... If they said "pesticide", that would refer to a
poison/bug killer, something not applied to grasses/hay. Herbicide would refer
to a selective weed (but not harmful to grass) killer. It's intended for use on
hay/grass to be fed to animals. Could they be confused about pesticide vs.
herbicide? If there's any question about it, you could soak the same hay and apply the water to a small tomato/bean plant to be sure.