Organic Tomatoes

[pmcgrady]

Lets say I started organically grown Old German seeds in Miracle Gro potting mix, when planted out, I throw a little Osmocoat in the hole with a can full of MG potting mix. From then on I only use tomato tone,would these be considered organically grown tomatoes, or did I defeat the whole purpose when I used the MG potting mix and Osmocoat?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by pmcgrady

Lets say I started organically grown Old German seeds in Miracle Gro potting mix, when planted out, I throw a little Osmocoat in the hole with a can full of MG potting mix. From then on I only use tomato tone,would these be considered organically grown tomatoes, or did I defeat the whole purpose when I used the MG potting mix and Osmocoat?

To a purist they wouldn't be organically grown.
To me they would be.
Another thought to consider is the organic seeds.
I dont feel that there is one bit of difference between one and the other.

But many people on the organic train want to have nothing to do with seeds that weren't organically grown.
Due to the fact they dont want to contribute to the non-organic side of things or other reasons.
There are many levels of organic out there.

Worth

[RayR]

You could not claim it to be "organically grown" if you used any synthetic fertilizer or potting mix containing synthetic fertilizer.
Also the use of most chemical fungicides and pesticides would also disqualify any claims of being organically grown.

[bughunter99]

No they are not organically grown. They are, however, grown in a more earth friendly manner than some.

Pure organic growing is not always feasible for everyone. For instance I have to drive ten miles to get potting mix with chemical additives, that is not feasible for everyone.

I am a proponent of organically grown food, but I am even a bigger believer that all positive steps are good ones. You chose a slow release fertilizer as opposed to a high dose chemical that is too much for the plants that would wash away and contaminate other things. You are planting plants, instead of lawns. You have not been dousing the plants with fungicides and pesticides and presumably have not been dousing your garden with products like round up. You are doing good.

[heirloomtomaguy]

I am that purist and if you use Miracle gor or Ozmocote your plants are definitely not organic. Any fertilizer or pesticide you use needs to be certified organic. I would not even buy Miracle gro nature care organic on principle alone. Also if i mulch with hay or straw it needs to be certified organic as well as any manure i use. If you stick organic you may lose a bit of yeild the first couple years but after that you will never look back.

[bughunter99]

Originally Posted by Worth1

To a purist they wouldn't be organically grown.
To me they would be.
Another thought to consider is the organic seeds.
I dont feel that there is one bit of difference between one and the other.

But many people on the organic train want to have nothing to do with seeds that weren't organically grown.
Due to the fact they dont want to contribute to the non-organic side of things or other reasons.
There are many levels of organic out there.

Worth

There is big money in organics. It commands much higher prices than non-organic produce. It is also often more expensive to grow organically. With most things you cannot tell by looking at something if it was raised without chemicals. There is a very big honor system associated with organic selling. For these reasons you have a whole lot of cheating that goes on where people try to redefine organic so that they can use some chemicals and still ask big prices for their non-organic produce.

Purists rightly object to the use of organic with anything that is not 100% organic. Something is either raised without chemicals or it is not. There is no such thing as partly organic, but there are a lot of people these days trying to be more organic and that is a great thing!

[Blueaussi]

And, we're finding out where the seeds came from and how they were treated is important. Look at the connection between neonicotinoids and colony collapse disorder. (yes, yes, yes, it's not the only cause. Now sit down.)

So, count me as a purist when defining what is organic and what is not, but a realist in the garden. I do things in as organic a way as possible, but can't always afford or acquire what I need to be 100% organic.

One of my major peeves is that the popularity of Miracle Grow potting soil has made it very difficult to get decent potting soil that's not pre-loaded with all kinds of fertilizers. And when you can find it, it's very expensive. I can't always generate all the soil and compost I need for my containers, but buying it is becoming too expensive an option.

[pmcgrady]

Originally Posted by bughunter99

No they are not organically grown. They are, however, grown in a more earth friendly manner than some.

Pure organic growing is not always feasible for everyone. For instance I have to drive ten miles to get potting mix with chemical additives, that is not feasible for everyone.

I am a proponent of organically grown food, but I am even a bigger believer that all positive steps are good ones. You chose a slow release fertilizer as opposed to a high dose chemical that is too much for the plants that would wash away and contaminate other things. You are planting plants, instead of lawns. You have not been dousing the plants with fungicides and pesticides and presumably have not been dousing your garden with products like round up. You are doing good.

Nope I don't use roundup in the garden(just wet newspaper and about 6 inches of staw mulch) no pesticides/fungicides and actually 1 row of 9 tomatoes I didn't use Osmocoat, I threw a small dead bluegill in each hole, just to see what happens.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by bughunter99

There is big money in organics. It commands much higher prices than non-organic produce. It is also often more expensive to grow organically. With most things you cannot tell by looking at something if it was raised without chemicals. There is a very big honor system associated with organic selling. For these reasons you have a whole lot of cheating that goes on where people try to redefine organic so that they can use some chemicals and still ask big prices for their non-organic produce.

Purists rightly object to the use of organic with anything that is not 100% organic. Something is either raised without chemicals or it is not. There is no such thing as partly organic, but there are a lot of people these days trying to be more organic and that is a great thing!

Actually there are 3 different levels of organic in the US alone and maybe more.

I didn't use the word purist in a derogatory manner.

As for me I had rather eat the food from my garden raised with non certified seeds or plants than organic food from the store I do not trust for many reasons.

I feel it is safer because to date I have never used any pesticides or sprays of any kind on my plants.
I haven't used anything like hog manure on them that will get me sick.
I can eat my food right out of the garden without washing and know for a fact I am safe.

Right now about the only insects and critters I have are spiders lizards frogs toads and ladybugs.

I found one little colony of aphids on a plant way away from my garden and I sprayed it with kerosine and lit it on fire.

Worth

[heirloomtomaguy]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Actually there are 3 different levels of organic in the US alone and maybe more.

I didn't use the word purist in a derogatory manner.

As for me I had rather eat the food from my garden raised with non certified seeds or plants than organic food from the store I do not trust for many reasons.

I feel it is safer because to date I have never used any pesticides or sprays of any kind on my plants.
I haven't used anything like hog manure on them that will get me sick.
I can eat my food right out of the garden without washing and know for a fact I am safe.

Right now about the only insects and critters I have are spiders lizards frogs toads and ladybugs.

I found one little colony of aphids on a plant way away from my garden and I sprayed it with kerosine and lit it on fire.

Worth

Common Worth i know you did not mean purist to be derogatory. In fact im glad you used it because so many people claim to be organic only to cut corners. I know not everyone can afford to be organic and in reality neither can i but when it comes to the food my family eats i will gladly scimp in other areas of spending to afford organic. Ita definitely not easy but rewarding.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

Common Worth i know you did not mean purist to be derogatory. In fact im glad you used it because so many people claim to be organic only to cut corners. I know not everyone can afford to be organic and in reality neither can i but when it comes to the food my family eats i will gladly scimp in other areas of spending to afford organic. Ita definitely not easy but rewarding.

Yes a derogatory term would be Zealot.
I would not use that word for anyone here now but we have had one or two come and go.
One of them had nut at the last part of their user name.

Worth

[bughunter99]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Actually there are 3 different levels of organic in the US alone and maybe more.

I didn't use the word purist in a derogatory manner.

As for me I had rather eat the food from my garden raised with non certified seeds or plants than organic food from the store I do not trust for many reasons.

I feel it is safer because to date I have never used any pesticides or sprays of any kind on my plants.
I haven't used anything like hog manure on them that will get me sick.
I can eat my food right out of the garden without washing and know for a fact I am safe.

Right now about the only insects and critters I have are spiders lizards frogs toads and ladybugs.

I found one little colony of aphids on a plant way away from my garden and I sprayed it with kerosine and lit it on fire.

Worth

I am with you. My garden grown stuff is always preferable to trusting some of the organic food labels. For instance if the country of origin is China and the label says organic I am still not buying it. I think if anything every makes me give up snow it will be to have a longer growing season and less need to go to the store. I'm laughing at the aphid removal. I'm guessing that was pretty effective.

[Morningsun]

I am a newbie to the site and my first time growing tomatoes. It is a hard job. I am certified naturally grown and my tomatoes are in need of Nitrogen. I purchased the Blood Meal and rain is expected for the next four days! I am not giving up.

[Gardeneer]

I consider "Organic Seed" a gimmick.
Seeds taken from either an organically gown fruit or not (of the same variety), are identical genetically. "Organic" refers and applies to growing method , not the seeds. JMO

Gardeneer

[pmcgrady]

Ok you need "certified organic seed" to start....
Then you need "certified organic" potting soil...
And your straw mulch, needs certified...
Are you F'N kidding me?

REALLY?