Blue tomatoes: I was totally wrong

Fred Hempel · August 1, 2015

There are instances of my skepticism in Tomatoville threads regarding Blue (anthocyanin) tomatoes.

Well, I was completely wrong.

I had a very blue (and red fleshed) tomato at the farmers' market today, and it was truly exceptional. There was also no weird aftertaste. Clearly the blue can be completely separated from any weird flavors that have been in some of the blue tomato lines.

So, please disregard my previous statements about blue tomatoes. I stand corrected by whoever bred the blue tomatoes I ate at the market today.

Cole_Robbie · August 1, 2015

Doesn't it just taste like a good red tomato? I don't think blue has a flavor, at least that I have noticed.

The two blue-on-yellow varieties I had this year, Bosque Blue Bumblebee and Amethyst Cream, were my favorite blues. They taste like sweet pale yellow tomatoes.

None of the blue-on-red fruit I have tried have impressed me as being that great. They just taste like normal reds. Dancing with Smurfs has been the one I liked most, flavor-wise. Blue Beauty is blue-on-pink; it was ok, but nothing special in regard to flavor.

luigiwu · August 1, 2015

Did you find out what it kind it was???

Fred Hempel · August 1, 2015

It was not like a good red tomato. It was like a great red tomato.

I haven't found out what it was yet. But I will soon.

Fusion_power · August 1, 2015

Fred, I've got some blue lines with good flavor though I would not yet rank any of them as great. The interesting part of breeding for me has been that it is very difficult to get good color into a large fruit and difficult to get good flavor into a medium size fruit. Most of the P20 derived lines are in the range from ping pong ball up to tennis ball size.

From a discussion with Jim Myers a couple of years ago, I'm under the impression that P20 is expressing only 2 of the 3 genes identified for anthocyanin. This makes it a lot easier to bring them into a different background as compared to 3 genes described in online articles.

One thing I found was that high anthocyanin lines tend to be low in sugar. I've been working with higher sugar genetics and now have a good flavored line that is very promising. Another year should prove if it is worth releasing. You might check brix on the market tomato and see if it is in the high range. If so, that will explain a lot of the "great" tomato flavor.

Cole_Robbie · August 1, 2015

higher sugar genetics

I don't know anything about breeding, but just from a consumer perspective, I was thinking the same thing.

maf · August 1, 2015

Anthocyanins are said to be odorless and nearly flavorless, contributing to taste as a moderately astringent sensation. I see no reason why antho tomatoes cannot be bred to taste good; they just need to be crossed and recrossed to better tasting varieties to eliminate the undesirable characteristics that are hitching a ride from the wild species parents.

I was very skeptical of the antho varieties originally (pre Indigo Rose), due to the reports of poor flavor and the hype, but when I saw the results some friends were getting from crosses involving some of the blue types I was willing to realign my expectations.

AlittleSalt · August 1, 2015

We grew several blue types this year. We all liked the Helsing ★★★★★★★★ Blue tomatoes. Next year, we will be trying Blue Beauty, Ambrosia Blue, and Indigo Blue Beauty. The blue and black tomatoes did grow well here in Texas

Spartanburg123 · August 1, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by maf

Anthocyanins are said to be odorless and nearly flavorless, contributing to taste as a moderately astringent sensation. I see no reason why antho tomatoes cannot be bred to taste good; they just need to be crossed and recrossed to better tasting varieties to eliminate the undesirable characteristics that are hitching a ride from the wild species parents.

I was very skeptical of the antho varieties originally (pre Indigo Rose), due to the reports of poor flavor and the hype, but when I saw the results some friends were getting from crosses involving some of the blue types I was willing to realign my expectations.

Chemically, the anthocyanins are aromatic polyphenols- which are themselves acids. It's not too surprising that a fairly high concentration of these molecules in the tomato would pucker the lips somewhat. Not sure how to separate color and acidity in this case other than increasing the sugar content.

Ever notice how bitter and acidic the black grape's skins are? These are due to proanthocyanidins, which are polymeric phenols. Green grapes don't show this.

clkeiper · August 2, 2015

has anyone crossed a a black tomato with a blue tomato for the darker color with a better flavor?? just a thought as I am not a breeder, but I have a lot of black tomatoes that I have liked.

Fusion_power · August 2, 2015

Yes, a black has been crossed to high anthocyanin, unfortunately, the cross wound up exceptionally susceptible to foliage diseases. I still have seed, but will not grow it again after near total failure 3 years in a row.

ContainerTed · August 3, 2015

Fred and Fusion - Five years ago, I received this one from a man who called himself "James Campbell" and called this tomato "Blue Cherry". Like Fred said above, this is not a good tasting red tomato - it's a great tasting red tomato. I've grown it every year since I go the seed and it is always on my top ten list for taste. It's an indeterminant, large plant, and sets fruit in any temperature all the way to frost. I also have seed for the one first advertised as "P20" and it is quite different - smaller and not so prone to showing the black.

Both of you let me know if you would like some seed. This is not an offer to the general public, but only for research purposes.

**carolyn137** · August 3, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Fred and Fusion - Five years ago, I received this one from a man who called himself "James Campbell" and called this tomato "Blue Cherry". Like Fred said above, this is not a good tasting red tomato - it's a great tasting red tomato. I've grown it every year since I go the seed and it is always on my top ten list for taste. It's an indeterminant, large plant, and sets fruit in any temperature all the way to frost. I also have seed for the one first advertised as "P20" and it is quite different - smaller and not so prone to showing the black.

Both of you let me know if you would like some seed. This is not an offer to the general public, but only for research purposes.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/44...-seed-for-sale

I love Google and when I have the time I'm going to do a thead in the Off Topic Forum telling WHY I love Google so very much, especially when I'm conscious.

Carolyn

ContainerTed · August 3, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/44...-seed-for-sale

I love Google and when I have the time I'm going to do a thead in the Off Topic Forum telling WHY I love Google so very much, especially when I'm conscious.

Carolyn

The latest post to that page was 1/27/2011. I don't think he's doing much with that site any more. The site shows a cost of $2 if you send an SASE and $3 if you just want him to send you some. But it's been more than 4 years since any activity on that site.

I still like "BING".

BigVanVader · August 3, 2015

Good Fred, now find out the variety so I can order some. Salt I did think HJBs were ok taste wise but they split so badly I won't ever grow again. Ted, why you gotta tease me with a great tasting blue like that? I was getting excited then #shutdown

August 1, 2015	#1
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	Blue tomatoes: I was totally wrong There are instances of my skepticism in Tomatoville threads regarding Blue (anthocyanin) tomatoes. Well, I was completely wrong. I had a very blue (and red fleshed) tomato at the farmers' market today, and it was truly exceptional. There was also no weird aftertaste. Clearly the blue can be completely separated from any weird flavors that have been in some of the blue tomato lines. So, please disregard my previous statements about blue tomatoes. I stand corrected by whoever bred the blue tomatoes I ate at the market today.

August 1, 2015	#3
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	Did you find out what it kind it was??? __________________ Subirrigated Container gardening (RGGS) in NY, Zone 7!

August 1, 2015	#5
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Fred, I've got some blue lines with good flavor though I would not yet rank any of them as great. The interesting part of breeding for me has been that it is very difficult to get good color into a large fruit and difficult to get good flavor into a medium size fruit. Most of the P20 derived lines are in the range from ping pong ball up to tennis ball size. From a discussion with Jim Myers a couple of years ago, I'm under the impression that P20 is expressing only 2 of the 3 genes identified for anthocyanin. This makes it a lot easier to bring them into a different background as compared to 3 genes described in online articles. One thing I found was that high anthocyanin lines tend to be low in sugar. I've been working with higher sugar genetics and now have a good flavored line that is very promising. Another year should prove if it is worth releasing. You might check brix on the market tomato and see if it is in the high range. If so, that will explain a lot of the "great" tomato flavor. Last edited by Fusion_power; August 1, 2015 at 05:52 PM.

August 2, 2015	#10
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	has anyone crossed a a black tomato with a blue tomato for the darker color with a better flavor?? just a thought as I am not a breeder, but I have a lot of black tomatoes that I have liked. __________________ carolyn k

August 1, 2015	#2
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Doesn't it just taste like a good red tomato? I don't think blue has a flavor, at least that I have noticed. The two blue-on-yellow varieties I had this year, Bosque Blue Bumblebee and Amethyst Cream, were my favorite blues. They taste like sweet pale yellow tomatoes. None of the blue-on-red fruit I have tried have impressed me as being that great. They just taste like normal reds. Dancing with Smurfs has been the one I liked most, flavor-wise. Blue Beauty is blue-on-pink; it was ok, but nothing special in regard to flavor.

August 1, 2015	#7
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	Anthocyanins are said to be odorless and nearly flavorless, contributing to taste as a moderately astringent sensation. I see no reason why antho tomatoes cannot be bred to taste good; they just need to be crossed and recrossed to better tasting varieties to eliminate the undesirable characteristics that are hitching a ride from the wild species parents. I was very skeptical of the antho varieties originally (pre Indigo Rose), due to the reports of poor flavor and the hype, but when I saw the results some friends were getting from crosses involving some of the blue types I was willing to realign my expectations.

August 1, 2015	#8
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	We grew several blue types this year. We all liked the Helsing ★★★★★★★★ Blue tomatoes. Next year, we will be trying Blue Beauty, Ambrosia Blue, and Indigo Blue Beauty. The blue and black tomatoes did grow well here in Texas

August 3, 2015	#15
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	Good Fred, now find out the variety so I can order some. Salt I did think HJBs were ok taste wise but they split so badly I won't ever grow again. Ted, why you gotta tease me with a great tasting blue like that? I was getting excited then #shutdown