GOOSE CREEK?

cottonpicker · January 30, 2006

Has anyone grown Goose Creek?? Saw it offered on one of the seed co. web sites. Sounded v. interesting!!
Any opinions???

LD

**carolyn137** · January 30, 2006

Larry,

There have been several threads about Goose Creek at GW and some of the folks who have grown it have also registered here.

I think the summary statement might be close to ho Hum.

But there's also some background here. Jimmy Williams who sells plants, not seeds, and is the source of seeds to Laurel who offers plants , claims that the variety is about 200 years old and came from relatives of his near Goose Creek, and now I can't remember if it's GA or VA or SC, etc, but a couple of years ago I was contacted by an editor of a magazine where they were running an article on this variety and Williams who is very much into PR, and I was asked to comment.

It was my conclusion that the variety, which is medium sized and smooth, not lumpy bumpy, could not have come from that time period, and I asked Andrew Smith, author of that wonderful book about the history of the tomato to also look into it. And he definitely said it was not as claimed and forwarded his comments to the editor.

In addition, Jimmy Williams has tried to patent his variety and again, there were several long threads about that at GW as well. I still have his patent application in my faves. One cannot patent a variety without some genetic input to that variety, meaning that OP heirloom varieties are not patentable.

Just some background and I'm sure some folks who have grown it will chime in at some point.

Carolyn

tanagerzoo · January 30, 2006

I grew Goosecreek last season. It is a very pretty tomato. Very tasty. I enjoyed it--but does it live up to all the hype? I didn't think so. It was delicious, but not in the "knock your socks off, light candles to the tomato gods thanking them for sending us such magnificent gift..."

I wouldn't pay lots of dollars for plants +shipping unless you just gotta try it.

Christine

cottonpicker · January 30, 2006

Carolyn & Christine... THANKS for your replies to my burning question for today. As usual... I'm the "last one to know", a day late & dollar short..but I get there. Must "fess up" and say I hadn't seen any of the posts about it on GW. I Didn't know how long this variety had been around or any history so you two answered my question very well and to sum it up, "don't think I'll bother with this one". TOO MANY great varieties waiting for springtime already!!

Isn't it GREAT to have another web site to whet our tomato skills on!

Appreciate the replies!!
LD

**carolyn137** · January 30, 2006

Larry,

I'm still curious.

You said you saw it at a seed site, but all I know about are plants being sold by Laurel and she doesn't directly sell seeds.

It was my understanding that folks weren't supposed to be offering seeds, although this variety is OP.

Where did you see it at a seed company, if I may be so bold as to, well, you know the rest. LOL

Carolyn

cottonpicker · January 30, 2006

Carolyn... You are absolutely correct. It WAS an ad for PLANTS, not seed. Just wanted to see if you were wide awake & sharp as ever.

LD

**coronabarb** · January 30, 2006

I grew GC last year and will give it a try again. The plant was in a difficult area (needed lots of water) so I can't give it an honest evaluation for taste. It was tasty but not great. We'll see what it does in another area this year.

It was a very pretty tomato unlike any that I have grown...red/orange on top and pink on bottom, with some faint yellow streaking on top.

Corona~Barb

bully · January 30, 2006

I thought it was a decent tomato, I grew it last year and I may do so again. Let's say the jury is still out but if you have seeds or a plant and have the space then it is worth growing.
I don't sit on the fence for long but I have not made my mind up on this tomato yet.

cottonpicker · January 30, 2006

Thanks!! Barb & Bully... appreciate the input. Don't have the seeds or plants in hand for this year.

Wish you successful gardening!!
LD

travis · February 1, 2006

"In addition, Jimmy Williams has tried to patent his variety and again, there were several long threads about that at GW as well. I still have his patent application in my faves. One cannot patent a variety without some genetic input to that variety, meaning that OP heirloom varieties are not patentable. " [Carolyn]

Here's Jimmy Williams patent application:
http://www.freshpatents.com/Goose-cr...0040226061.php

Personnally, I think it's a hoot that someone can take an OP heirloom grown for generations (allegedly) in a Gullah (S.C. Low Country Creole/African) community and attempt to turn it into a cash cow for one individual. Rediculous!

Oh, and here is some of the patent application text:

"The fruit has an unusual characteristic of two distinct stages of ripeness (hahahaha ... you can fool SOME of the people all of the time) with fruit at the first ripe stage having characteristic green shoulders and an orange coloration on the remainder of the fruit (which in all other red tomatoes indicates a stage of incomplete ripeness). At the second ripe stage the fruit have a characteristic overall red color (just like most all other red when ripe tomatoes). The fruit are edible at both ripe stages (for cripes sakes ... you can eat a tomato from green breaker to dead ripe fermented for that matter). The fruit in the first ripe stage exhibits a medium to firm texture (kind of like other not fully ripe tomatoes) with a citrus-like, fruity flavor (the tartness of which resembles a thousand other underripe red tomatoes). The fruit in the second ripe stage exhibits a soft to medium firmness (identical to a fully ripe red tomato) and is higher in juice and Brix ... content than is present in fruit at the first ripe stage (which did not have the juicy texture simply because it wasn't ripe yet) (and I doubt they really tested the Brix or they would've found that, just like all other tomatoes, the Brix content doesn't significantly increase past the breaker stage). Thus, the fruit can be harvested at either of two different stages to yield the unique appearance (bull), texture (wrong), and flavor properties characteristic of ripeness (read the specs on what constitutes a "ripe" tomato in commercial parlance) at each stage (just exactly like any other tomato from the various breaker stages through fully ripe stages).

Hahahahahahaha. Boy, you gotta love America where anyone can sell anything to just about anybody.

PV

bully · February 1, 2006

I think that patent has two stages of ripeness..
spoiled and rotten....

barkeater · February 1, 2006

Maybe my alzheimers has kicked in faster than I expected, but in almost 3 years at GW I've never heard of "Goose Creek". So, being a disinterested 3rd party, from what I gather of the posts here, it is VERY pretty, and because of that, those who have grown it want to give it another chance, Hoping it will taste better. Wishful thinking maybe??

bully · February 1, 2006

No bark there is nothing special about how it looks, I know I have a picture of it somewhere but I can find it.

Mine was shipped from CA and had some catching up to do, then I mulched with grass clippings that I think were contaminated with weed killer, even after all that I had some pretty tasty tomatoes.

I just want to try again with a healthy plant before I give it my finale judgement

barkeater · February 1, 2006

bully, don't say that. I have no more room for another new tomato!

Earl · February 8, 2006

I grew it last year, thanks to Prince Bully. Tasted pretty darn good. Will grow it again. I had to give the plant mouth to mouth to resusitate it. LOL.

January 30, 2006	#1
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	GOOSE CREEK? Has anyone grown Goose Creek?? Saw it offered on one of the seed co. web sites. Sounded v. interesting!! Any opinions??? LD

January 30, 2006	#4
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	Goose Creek..... Carolyn & Christine... THANKS for your replies to my burning question for today. As usual... I'm the "last one to know", a day late & dollar short..but I get there. Must "fess up" and say I hadn't seen any of the posts about it on GW. I Didn't know how long this variety had been around or any history so you two answered my question very well and to sum it up, "don't think I'll bother with this one". TOO MANY great varieties waiting for springtime already!! Isn't it GREAT to have another web site to whet our tomato skills on! Appreciate the replies!! LD

January 30, 2006	#9
cottonpicker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SE PA..near Valley Forge Posts: 839	goose creek Thanks!! Barb & Bully... appreciate the input. Don't have the seeds or plants in hand for this year. Wish you successful gardening!! LD

January 30, 2006	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Larry, There have been several threads about Goose Creek at GW and some of the folks who have grown it have also registered here. I think the summary statement might be close to ho Hum. But there's also some background here. Jimmy Williams who sells plants, not seeds, and is the source of seeds to Laurel who offers plants , claims that the variety is about 200 years old and came from relatives of his near Goose Creek, and now I can't remember if it's GA or VA or SC, etc, but a couple of years ago I was contacted by an editor of a magazine where they were running an article on this variety and Williams who is very much into PR, and I was asked to comment. It was my conclusion that the variety, which is medium sized and smooth, not lumpy bumpy, could not have come from that time period, and I asked Andrew Smith, author of that wonderful book about the history of the tomato to also look into it. And he definitely said it was not as claimed and forwarded his comments to the editor. In addition, Jimmy Williams has tried to patent his variety and again, there were several long threads about that at GW as well. I still have his patent application in my faves. One cannot patent a variety without some genetic input to that variety, meaning that OP heirloom varieties are not patentable. Just some background and I'm sure some folks who have grown it will chime in at some point. Carolyn

January 30, 2006	#3
tanagerzoo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7 Delaware Posts: 67	I grew Goosecreek last season. It is a very pretty tomato. Very tasty. I enjoyed it--but does it live up to all the hype? I didn't think so. It was delicious, but not in the "knock your socks off, light candles to the tomato gods thanking them for sending us such magnificent gift..." I wouldn't pay lots of dollars for plants +shipping unless you just gotta try it. Christine

January 30, 2006	#7
coronabarb Tomatoville® Recipe Keeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roseburg, Oregon - zone 7 Posts: 2,821	I grew GC last year and will give it a try again. The plant was in a difficult area (needed lots of water) so I can't give it an honest evaluation for taste. It was tasty but not great. We'll see what it does in another area this year. It was a very pretty tomato unlike any that I have grown...red/orange on top and pink on bottom, with some faint yellow streaking on top. Corona~Barb

January 30, 2006	#8
bully Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: S.E. MI Posts: 794	I thought it was a decent tomato, I grew it last year and I may do so again. Let's say the jury is still out but if you have seeds or a plant and have the space then it is worth growing. I don't sit on the fence for long but I have not made my mind up on this tomato yet.

February 1, 2006	#10
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	"In addition, Jimmy Williams has tried to patent his variety and again, there were several long threads about that at GW as well. I still have his patent application in my faves. One cannot patent a variety without some genetic input to that variety, meaning that OP heirloom varieties are not patentable. " [Carolyn] Here's Jimmy Williams patent application: http://www.freshpatents.com/Goose-cr...0040226061.php Personnally, I think it's a hoot that someone can take an OP heirloom grown for generations (allegedly) in a Gullah (S.C. Low Country Creole/African) community and attempt to turn it into a cash cow for one individual. Rediculous! Oh, and here is some of the patent application text: "The fruit has an unusual characteristic of two distinct stages of ripeness (hahahaha ... you can fool SOME of the people all of the time) with fruit at the first ripe stage having characteristic green shoulders and an orange coloration on the remainder of the fruit (which in all other red tomatoes indicates a stage of incomplete ripeness). At the second ripe stage the fruit have a characteristic overall red color (just like most all other red when ripe tomatoes). The fruit are edible at both ripe stages (for cripes sakes ... you can eat a tomato from green breaker to dead ripe fermented for that matter). The fruit in the first ripe stage exhibits a medium to firm texture (kind of like other not fully ripe tomatoes) with a citrus-like, fruity flavor (the tartness of which resembles a thousand other underripe red tomatoes). The fruit in the second ripe stage exhibits a soft to medium firmness (identical to a fully ripe red tomato) and is higher in juice and Brix ... content than is present in fruit at the first ripe stage (which did not have the juicy texture simply because it wasn't ripe yet) (and I doubt they really tested the Brix or they would've found that, just like all other tomatoes, the Brix content doesn't significantly increase past the breaker stage). Thus, the fruit can be harvested at either of two different stages to yield the unique appearance (bull), texture (wrong), and flavor properties characteristic of ripeness (read the specs on what constitutes a "ripe" tomato in commercial parlance) at each stage (just exactly like any other tomato from the various breaker stages through fully ripe stages). Hahahahahahaha. Boy, you gotta love America where anyone can sell anything to just about anybody. PV

February 1, 2006	#12
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Maybe my alzheimers has kicked in faster than I expected, but in almost 3 years at GW I've never heard of "Goose Creek". So, being a disinterested 3rd party, from what I gather of the posts here, it is VERY pretty, and because of that, those who have grown it want to give it another chance, Hoping it will taste better. Wishful thinking maybe??

February 8, 2006	#15
Earl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 1,278	I grew it last year, thanks to Prince Bully. Tasted pretty darn good. Will grow it again. I had to give the plant mouth to mouth to resusitate it. LOL.