"GMO" "Organic"

[Ecarr9]

So.. I have this know-it-all Brother-in-law who thinks his "organic" tomatoes are just the greatest accomplishment. (he's had about 2 4 oz. tomatoes all season). Anywho.. as I'm discussing my plants and my struggles with organic pesticides and treatments... hornworms.. ect... he says "Its not like your tomatoes are organic anyway". I asked him what he was talking about and he says "yours didn't come from organic seeds". I tell him that it pretty much goes without saying that most, if not all seeds are organic... whether they say it on the packet or not. And that all of them are non_GMO.(because he also brought up the GMO thing.. since my plants are hybrids). to which he says I am wrong and that all Hybrids are GMO. I myself understand the difference between GMO food and hybrid tomatoes... but as far as the "organic" labeled seeds that he planted goes. What makes a seed organic? What's the difference between seeds from say TGS and his "organic" seeds?

[Lee]

Very few if any hybrid tomatoes are GMO. Your BIL is mis-informed.
Organic seeds are ones that came from plants raised organically.
It only requires one season to create certified organic seed.

[Fusion_power]

There are no commercially available tomato seed that are GMO. There is virtually no difference between organically grown and conventionally grown seed. There is an ethos involved, some people don't want anything including seed that has ever been exposed to herbicides, pesticides, or chemical fertilizers. IMO, a person who is taking good care of their plants will use minimal inputs regardless if commercial or organic growing methods are used.

I use Pyganic in my garden to spray beans. Without it, my beans would be wiped out by various bugs and pests. Pyganic is an "organic" pesticide containing natural pyrethrum. However, it is deadly poisonous to humans so I have to use serious precautions when spraying.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

There are no commercially available tomato seed that are GMO. There is virtually no difference between organically grown and conventionally grown seed. There is an ethos involved, some people don't want anything including seed that has ever been exposed to herbicides, pesticides, or chemical fertilizers. IMO, a person who is taking good care of their plants will use minimal inputs regardless if commercial or organic growing methods are used.

I use Pyganic in my garden to spray beans. Without it, my beans would be wiped out by various bugs and pests. Pyganic is an "organic" pesticide containing natural pyrethrum. However, it is deadly poisonous to humans so I have to use serious precautions when spraying.

Right, no GMO tomatoes now, but there were and I grew two of them out of curiosity and they were Flavr Savr and Endless Summer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneti...odified_tomato

They sat on a counter and NEVER ripened up, and I mean for months until they just shrivled into oblivian.

I referred to them as my Summer Spring Winter Fall varieties.

And from the Wiki article I see that other modifications are being used to introduce other traits in tomatoes that I knew nothing about until I read that Wiki article.

About organic seeds.

Where I live in upstate NY NOFA is the organic certifying agency and if someone is organically certified and cannot find a source for organic seeds for a variety they want to grow they are allowed to use non-organic seed.

Although I didn't check, I think the same pertains to MOGFA ( Maine Organic Farmers Association) which was the FIRST such certifying group in the US and served as a model for all others, but the Feds did their own definitions and listed four levels of organicness, which is confusing even today. But there are threads here already about those Fed levels.

Carolyn

[Ecarr9]

That's about what I was thinking. Thank you for the replies everybody. Just making sure I wasn't missing anything.

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

They sat on a counter and NEVER ripened up, and I mean for months until they just shrivled into oblivian.

That was some really early work, so to me, the results are not surprising. Thank goodness we didn't write off the automobile because the early engines were more noisy than horses. I hope the research boundaries soon allow serious academic minds to focus on what really matters to me - flavour & yield for the home gardener.

[imp]

Boy howdy! I'd love to see the hardiness of some weeds being put to good use in a plant we like to eat, such as tomatoes or other veg.'s!

Can you imagine a tomato as tough as Johnson grass is in bad conditions?!!

[RJGlew]

Originally Posted by imp

Boy howdy! I'd love to see the hardiness of some weeds being put to good use in a plant we like to eat, such as tomatoes or other veg.'s!

Can you imagine a tomato as tough as Johnson grass is in bad conditions?!!

You don't have to be involved in the progression - nobody is stopping you from saving OP seed. It is an uniformed, but vocal minority who are interfering with what I want to see & purchase.

[imp]

Originally Posted by RJGlew

You don't have to be involved in the progression - nobody is stopping you from saving OP seed. It is an uniformed, but vocal minority who are interfering with what I want to see & purchase.

?

I'm sorry, but I am not understanding your remarks. Would you expand, please?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by imp

Boy howdy! I'd love to see the hardiness of some weeds being put to good use in a plant we like to eat, such as tomatoes or other veg.'s!

Can you imagine a tomato as tough as Johnson grass is in bad conditions?!!

Many years ago some technologies were so creepy, complicated, taboo and crazy only the well educated, nuts, self taught or well informed were doing anything with it.
JP Morgan cut off Tesla's funding because he couldn't see any monetary gain in the mans research.
That research was to send wireless electricity through the atmosphere so everyone could have free electricity.
The man had no concept of business and how underhanded it can be.

When and only when this technology has became as common as making jello will it ever benefit the home gardener.

I'm a little scared of a tomato that is as hardy as Johnson grass.
Could you imagine your garden infested with yellow pear rhizomes.
Worth

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by imp

?

I'm sorry, but I am not understanding your remarks. Would you expand, please?

I dont get it either.

Worth

[Ecarr9]

For the record... I'm all for a tomato that spits laser beams of sevin dust at hornworms, and self coats its leaves with Clorox and daconil... with tomatoes that come out like perfect, natural, uncracked Brandywines. But then we'd have nothing to talk about.

[Fusion_power]

I'm a little scared of a tomato that is as hardy as Johnson grass.
Could you imagine your garden infested with yellow pear rhizomes.

I grew several S. Pimpinellifoliums over the last 7 years. A few of them were very attractive to birds. My neighbor has an area filled in with large rocks. The birds dropped a few seed which promptly grew into highly productive but small fruited tomato plants that covered the rock area. I ate a double handful of very tasty ripe tomatoes from those plants this evening. They grow back from seed every year. I tell him he has the only natural reproducing population of wild tomato plants in the U.S. Are they as hardy as Johnson Grass? No, not quite.... but they are getting there. Next year I plan to drop a few LA0417 seed into his rocks and see what happens when a disease tolerant wild tomato hits those rocks. BTW, this rocky area is very similar to growing conditions in the native range of S. Pimpinellifolium in Peru and Ecuador.

[AlittleSalt]

Organic is how something is grown.

[imp]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Many years ago some technologies were so creepy, complicated, taboo and crazy only the well educated, nuts, self taught or well informed were doing anything with it.
JP Morgan cut off Tesla's funding because he couldn't see any monetary gain in the mans research.
That research was to send wireless electricity through the atmosphere so everyone could have free electricity.
The man had no concept of business and how underhanded it can be.

When and only when this technology has became as common as making jello will it ever benefit the home gardener.

I'm a little scared of a tomato that is as hardy as Johnson grass.
Could you imagine your garden infested with yellow pear rhizomes.
Worth

I've always liked the yellow pears we grew, they were a bit tangy for a yellow. And made terrific preserves, too.

My mom would make a thick thick jam out of both the yellow and red pears, and then swirl them in the jars prettily before we poured on the wax. Very striking to look at and yummy to eat on toasted sourdough with fresh butter.