Sweet Taxi

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2015

Taxi is my favorite high tunnel tomato to grow, and especially to sell. It's early, yields very well, and the fruit are attractive and marketable. It would be the perfect early yellow tomato, if not for the flavor, which isn't bad, but is mild and boring at best.

I would like to breed more sweetness into Taxi, but keep it the same in all other ways: early, yellow, medium-sized fruit, determinate, and obviously keep the high yield. I would sacrifice appearance and color if I had to in the effort to go after better flavor.

I was reading some basic how-to-breed info here: http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/html_.../pl_breed.html

My sweetest tomatoes last year were Orange Russian 117, Northern Lights, Paul Robeson, Dwarf Sweet Sue, and a Russian dwarf called Bosky (Bushy) Chabarovsky. These are the first varieties that come to mind that I could cross with Taxi.

I really have no idea what I am doing, so any input is appreciated. I'm not sure I really want to be a breeder. I just want Taxi to taste better.

DanishGardener · November 22, 2015

http://www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/Tomato/xingtom.html

^ Good info specifically on tomato crossing. Make sure to check the links at the bottom of the page.

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2015

neat. thanks.

DanishGardener · November 22, 2015

Using a Potato Leaf plant as the mother, would be the easiest when starting out.
Maybe something like KBX x Taxi? That way you will be able to tell if the cross took, as the F1 would be regular leaf.
KBX is one of, if not the best of the orange/yellow varieties I have grown. Dwarf Sweet Sue is also PL and could probably be interesting as well.

KBX: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/KBX

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2015

KBX is a good suggestion.

It's not PL, but I just received Sakharnyi Zheltyi: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sakharnyi_Zheltyi It looks promising.

PhilaGardener · November 22, 2015

KBX is listed as PL http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/KBX . Sakharnyi Zheltyi's listing says it is RL.

If Sweet Taxi is RL, then cross its pollen to a KBX PL flower and look for RL in the F1.

PNW_D · November 22, 2015

http://www.frogsleapfarm.blogspot.ca...-color-in.html

this is a pretty amazing site re breeding as well

Summer Sweet Gold had amazing flavour for me last year - a friend's hubby who seldom enjoys tomatoes raved about this one

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...mer_Sweet_Gold

Fusion_power · November 22, 2015

Your breeding objectives are "early, medium size, determinate, high yields, performs well in high tunnel".

Don't just pursue one breeding line, start with at least 2 and at most 4.

Increased sweetness is related to 3 plant traits; fewer total fruit produced, larger foliage volume exposed to sunlight, and a huge genetic component for tendency to sequester sugar in the fruit without converting it to starch or other chemicals. Based on breeding objectives, you will need to very carefully choose parents to avoid compromising production.

Earliness and plant hardiness in general are traits you can breed into your line. Earlinorth is a red tomato that could contribute at least a few interesting genes to your breeding pool.

Medium size is not hard to achieve but will will involve having to exclude most of the effects of the fasciated gene. You will compromise medium size when crossing to KBX. You can get back medium size by carefully selecting in the F2. The three key genes needed are: include sp, exclude fasciated, include yellow color. If you choose, you could easily develop a determinate orange at this step.

Maintaining production will be very difficult given the crosses you are going to have to make. The best suggestion I can make for this is to get seed of Big Beef X Eva Purple ball and use it as a parent to develop one line. BBXEPB is prepotent for high production meaning that it tends to ramp up production no matter what it is crossed to.

My last suggestion is that you will need a very sweet parent to cross with to boost the sugar content. None of the varieties you have named are this sweet. If you choose to cross with Sungold, you will bring in the beta carotene gene with attendant problems breeding it back out at the F2. If you cross with Zima or a similar orange grape, you will need at least 3 extra generations to recover a high sugar line. I don't have a really good suggestion for a cross to increase sweetness, however, I can offer a few seed of High Brix Orange Pear which brix around 12 in a stable open pollinated line. Msg me if you want a few seed, I can also toss in a few BBXEPB if you want them.

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2015

Thanks to everyone for the great ideas and links.

Aerial · November 23, 2015

Cole, that's a perfect mater you're trying to breed - early, medium size, determinate, high yields, good taste.

Sign me up for the first order of your super hybrid!

Cole_Robbie · December 21, 2015

Well, we'll see...

I thought this post by Darren Abbey was thought-provoking:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....3&postcount=13

I would certainly like to have Orange Taxi. I have not yet found an early OP orange determinate I like. I already have Juanne Flamme and Podorok Fei.

Fred Hempel · December 21, 2015

Interesting project. Good early determinates are, in general, not that plentiful.

Labradors2 · December 21, 2015

The Jaune Flamme that I grew was the opposite of sweet. I wouldn't chance crossing it with anything

.

Linda

Cole_Robbie · December 21, 2015

I traded the market vendor next to me a box of green beans for a couple Juane Flammes, so I did get to try it. It wasn't bad, a little watery, but it was a late season picking from a high tunnel. I think it would be sweet in highly amended soil.

AKmark · December 21, 2015

I like Flamme, it is sweet for me. Last year we crossed Green Giant with it and the F1 is awesome, really sweet with a unique design shows up in the dissected fruit. I asked Sherry why she did this cross at the greenhouse, she said GG is great but boring to look at, JF is good but kinda small.
At any rate, we will see how the f2's and 3's look this year. The f1 had a few larger fruit, but the small fruit is dominant, so on the outside at least, it looks like JF, but that will change in the f2 where we begin our selections.

November 22, 2015	#1
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Sweet Taxi Taxi is my favorite high tunnel tomato to grow, and especially to sell. It's early, yields very well, and the fruit are attractive and marketable. It would be the perfect early yellow tomato, if not for the flavor, which isn't bad, but is mild and boring at best. I would like to breed more sweetness into Taxi, but keep it the same in all other ways: early, yellow, medium-sized fruit, determinate, and obviously keep the high yield. I would sacrifice appearance and color if I had to in the effort to go after better flavor. I was reading some basic how-to-breed info here: http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/html_.../pl_breed.html My sweetest tomatoes last year were Orange Russian 117, Northern Lights, Paul Robeson, Dwarf Sweet Sue, and a Russian dwarf called Bosky (Bushy) Chabarovsky. These are the first varieties that come to mind that I could cross with Taxi. I really have no idea what I am doing, so any input is appreciated. I'm not sure I really want to be a breeder. I just want Taxi to taste better.

November 22, 2015	#7
PNW_D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 961	http://www.frogsleapfarm.blogspot.ca...-color-in.html this is a pretty amazing site re breeding as well Summer Sweet Gold had amazing flavour for me last year - a friend's hubby who seldom enjoys tomatoes raved about this one http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...mer_Sweet_Gold __________________ D. Last edited by PNW_D; November 22, 2015 at 07:38 PM.

November 22, 2015	#2
DanishGardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denmark Posts: 328	http://www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/Tomato/xingtom.html ^ Good info specifically on tomato crossing. Make sure to check the links at the bottom of the page.

November 22, 2015	#6
PhilaGardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,940	KBX is listed as PL http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/KBX . Sakharnyi Zheltyi's listing says it is RL. If Sweet Taxi is RL, then cross its pollen to a KBX PL flower and look for RL in the F1.

November 22, 2015	#8
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Your breeding objectives are "early, medium size, determinate, high yields, performs well in high tunnel". Don't just pursue one breeding line, start with at least 2 and at most 4. Increased sweetness is related to 3 plant traits; fewer total fruit produced, larger foliage volume exposed to sunlight, and a huge genetic component for tendency to sequester sugar in the fruit without converting it to starch or other chemicals. Based on breeding objectives, you will need to very carefully choose parents to avoid compromising production. Earliness and plant hardiness in general are traits you can breed into your line. Earlinorth is a red tomato that could contribute at least a few interesting genes to your breeding pool. Medium size is not hard to achieve but will will involve having to exclude most of the effects of the fasciated gene. You will compromise medium size when crossing to KBX. You can get back medium size by carefully selecting in the F2. The three key genes needed are: include sp, exclude fasciated, include yellow color. If you choose, you could easily develop a determinate orange at this step. Maintaining production will be very difficult given the crosses you are going to have to make. The best suggestion I can make for this is to get seed of Big Beef X Eva Purple ball and use it as a parent to develop one line. BBXEPB is prepotent for high production meaning that it tends to ramp up production no matter what it is crossed to. My last suggestion is that you will need a very sweet parent to cross with to boost the sugar content. None of the varieties you have named are this sweet. If you choose to cross with Sungold, you will bring in the beta carotene gene with attendant problems breeding it back out at the F2. If you cross with Zima or a similar orange grape, you will need at least 3 extra generations to recover a high sugar line. I don't have a really good suggestion for a cross to increase sweetness, however, I can offer a few seed of High Brix Orange Pear which brix around 12 in a stable open pollinated line. Msg me if you want a few seed, I can also toss in a few BBXEPB if you want them.

November 23, 2015	#10
Aerial Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: CA Posts: 410	Cole, that's a perfect mater you're trying to breed - early, medium size, determinate, high yields, good taste. Sign me up for the first order of your super hybrid!

December 21, 2015	#11
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Well, we'll see... I thought this post by Darren Abbey was thought-provoking: http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....3&postcount=13 I would certainly like to have Orange Taxi. I have not yet found an early OP orange determinate I like. I already have Juanne Flamme and Podorok Fei.

December 21, 2015	#12
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	Interesting project. Good early determinates are, in general, not that plentiful.

December 21, 2015	#13
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,893	The Jaune Flamme that I grew was the opposite of sweet. I wouldn't chance crossing it with anything . Linda

December 21, 2015	#15
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	I like Flamme, it is sweet for me. Last year we crossed Green Giant with it and the F1 is awesome, really sweet with a unique design shows up in the dissected fruit. I asked Sherry why she did this cross at the greenhouse, she said GG is great but boring to look at, JF is good but kinda small. At any rate, we will see how the f2's and 3's look this year. The f1 had a few larger fruit, but the small fruit is dominant, so on the outside at least, it looks like JF, but that will change in the f2 where we begin our selections.