Wrong seeds/plants for sale

taboule · January 9, 2016

Hi, I hope the new year is off to a good start for all of you.

This year I decided to grow onions from seeds, to be started indoors then transplanted in early spring after thaw out. So I was elated late december when I found new-for-2016 seeds at a local store, bought a bunch of Granex seeds (large sweet yellow). Then I read about them and learned they are a short day variety. I've since found the same in a different store (HDepot, also from Burpee ;-) I'm in the Northeast.

Do these folks know and/or don't care? Does it happen to others, for example with long DTM tomatoes in the colder zones?

Lastly should I bother growing these seeds or I only have a slim chance of getting decent sized bulbs? I've since found some walla walla, a long day onion, and could relegate the granex to be eaten as green scallions.

I know about Dixondale and others, but would like the satisfaction of growing from seed.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thank you.

AlittleSalt · January 9, 2016

If you have some extra space - I would grow them. Maybe in a flowerbed or along a walkway.

Labradors2 · January 9, 2016

That is SO annoying!

We have a (supposedly) reputable nursery that sells plants that are not perennial for our area, but they mix them in with the perennials. When asked direct questions, they admit that they are annuals, but I bet they catch a lot of people .....

Regarding onions, I guess the people who ordered them simply didn't have a clue. It's always best to do our homework before buying.

Linda

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

Hold the bus.

The onion needs a certain amount of daylight to go into the bulbing stage.
So with a short daylight onion like I need at around I think 10 to at the most to around 12 or 13 hours the critter wont get it until it is so hot they go dormant.
Boom game over now in the fall they come back to life but the daylight is back down too short and they think it is another year.
Ya hoo now I have a nice crop of onion seeds.
Now with that said you WILL get the amount of daylight you need but it will come sooner.
If you can keep them from freezing or what ever you will have a nice crop of onions with big bulbs.
I can grow the long daylight onions here if I can keep them cool enough to keep them from going dormant in the summer.

Does this clear it up any?

Yes I do understand the stupidity of the big box stores and when and what they sell.
It is a major pet peeve of mine.

Worth

ChiliPeppa · January 9, 2016

Last year when the onion sets came in to Home Depot here they were simply in boxes labled red, yellow, white. That's it. Nothing else to indicate what the heck they were. The nursery staff didn't know either and didn't care. So I purchased known starts elsewhere.

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa

Last year when the onion sets came in to Home Depot here they were simply in boxes labled red, yellow, white. That's it. Nothing else to indicate what the heck they were. The nursery staff didn't know either and didn't care. So I purchased known starts elsewhere.

I just mentioned this on another thread it ticks me off to no end, I mean really ticks me off.

They do the same thing with fruit trees sometimes.
Peach, really, 'what frigging peach.

Jerks.

Worth

heirloomtomaguy · January 9, 2016

The thing that really gets me beside the nameless labeling of onions and such is when the big box stores sell fruit and nut trees in Southern California that need 500 plus chill hours to produce efficiently. I mean do they really think that an apple tree that requires 600 chill hours is going to produce in a place that is lucky to see 200.

Gardeneer · January 9, 2016

I have learned this much that planting onions is more involved and tricky that one thinks.
First is to get the right variety for your latitude: (1) Short Day ? (2) Intermediate ? (3) Long Day ?

Then you have to decide how you are going to do it (1) From Seeds (2) from starts (3) from sets. Then each one of those will have to have different timing, DEPENDING on your climate ( in addition to the latitude)
I have done it maybe 3 times, 3 different approaches and ended up getting a lot of them that bolted. Darn it, I bought the stuff from local nurseries assuming that they are selling the right variety.

no:
I quit growing onions. Growing Garlic is much simpler. .. and tomatoes is a piece of cake.

A bag of yellow onions costs a couple of bucks.

Gardeneer

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I have learned this much that planting onions is more involved and tricky that one thinks.
First is to get the right variety for your latitude: (1) Short Day ? (2) Intermediate ? (3) Long Day ?

Then you have to decide how you are going to do it (1) From Seeds (2) from starts (3) from sets. Then each one of those will have to have different timing, DEPENDING on your climate ( in addition to the latitude)
I have done it maybe 3 times, 3 different approaches and ended up getting a lot of them that bolted. Darn it, I bought the stuff from local nurseries assuming that they are selling the right variety.

no:
I quit growing onions. Growing Garlic is much simpler. .. and tomatoes is a piece of cake.

A bag of yellow onions costs a couple of bucks.

Gardeneer

You need to go east young man.

Worth

ChiliPeppa · January 9, 2016

Slightly edging off topic, but when we first moved here I was into purchasing and planting Eucalyptus. Walmart had them in 5 gal pots. BUT eucalyptus puts out a strong tap root and these trees were so big that the taps had grown out of the bottom and those idiots CUT THEM OFF! You can get about 3 sorry years on a euc in the desert without a tap root. Now I grow my own and sell seedlings yearly.

Salsacharley · January 9, 2016

Wrong trees are much worse than wrong onions. I bought what was supposed to be a fuji apple tree and it took 2 years to find out it is a golden delicious. At least I like all apples but I am disappointed.

Deborah · January 9, 2016

The Silver Dollar eucalyptus is one of my favorite trees. I grow the mini ones from Johnny's Seeds. For us as you know they're a perennial.

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

You should have seen the expression on the peoples face at Home Depot when I asked them it it was a male or female Pistachio tree.

Then there is the dreaded Queen Palms they sell.
A Hotel put in a ton of them about 20 feet tall and every one froze out that winter.

Then the advertisements about how they select plants specifically for your area.
BS you look at the plants and they say Keep Soil Moist for where I live that is hog wash.
I dont mind watering but I dont want to create a swamp to do it.

I saw a peach at Lowes here that had like 1200 chill hours on it.

It;s no wonder there aren't any more people that garden.
They buy stuff and fail so often they give up.

I see young couples in the store buying seeds to plant in the late spring that there is no way it is going to happen.

I help every chance I get, more often than not I get thanked for helping them.

There are two people that live next to me that have crappy tomatoes every year.
The are from the north.
This year if they will let me I will give them tomato plants help and instructions for success.
Worth

Worth1 · January 9, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salsacharley

Wrong trees are much worse than wrong onions. I bought what was supposed to be a fuji apple tree and it took 2 years to find out it is a golden delicious. At least I like all apples but I am disappointed.

I would be really really ticked off if it turned out to be something other than Fiji.

Worth

taboule · January 10, 2016

Hi, thanks for all your feedback, I didn't realize this was going to strike a chord ;-)

Some comments back:

1) Yes, one of the first rules is "buyer beware." I am fairly new to onions and did my homework learning what short/long day meant. However this particular type (Granex) was new to me and the only/first seed I found that early, so I let my guard down -was too happy to find them and even thought about starting them on new year's day;-)

2) Salt, I have little room left and want to maximize my ROI. This is true for both growing the seeds indoors and transplanting in the spring. My main worry is really the labor/effort to plant the couple hundred little plants, spending hours hunched over -last year it got hard on my back,despite having developed an efficient technique.

3) Worth, thanks for your explanation WRT the mechanics behind the short/long differences. Had to read it a few times -brains are still cloudy from sleep and a hard/long work week. What I think you also said is that temperature also affects growth, and I get it in the case of long types in a southern zone. But in my case (short day type in a north zone): small plants goes in the ground in spring, say april after last frost, with the longest days still ahead, why would it not get big? I think you implied that it is possible to get good size.

One inclination is starting the walla walla's inside (any day now) and sowing the granex right in the ground in april. Smaller investment, and what I may end up doing -thin some to eat green and see what happens to the rest.

As far as other types of plants ill-suited for the locale: this past summer I saw fig trees for sale at a local nursery. Beautiful plants, with tiny fruits, in big pots, for around $100. These are fruits trees to grow in the ground, no way these would survive our winter outside.

Thanks again for a good discussion.

January 9, 2016	#1
taboule Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: MA Posts: 903	Wrong seeds/plants for sale Hi, I hope the new year is off to a good start for all of you. This year I decided to grow onions from seeds, to be started indoors then transplanted in early spring after thaw out. So I was elated late december when I found new-for-2016 seeds at a local store, bought a bunch of Granex seeds (large sweet yellow). Then I read about them and learned they are a short day variety. I've since found the same in a different store (HDepot, also from Burpee ;-) I'm in the Northeast. Do these folks know and/or don't care? Does it happen to others, for example with long DTM tomatoes in the colder zones? Lastly should I bother growing these seeds or I only have a slim chance of getting decent sized bulbs? I've since found some walla walla, a long day onion, and could relegate the granex to be eaten as green scallions. I know about Dixondale and others, but would like the satisfaction of growing from seed. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thank you.

January 9, 2016	#7
heirloomtomaguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: glendora ca Posts: 2,560	The thing that really gets me beside the nameless labeling of onions and such is when the big box stores sell fruit and nut trees in Southern California that need 500 plus chill hours to produce efficiently. I mean do they really think that an apple tree that requires 600 chill hours is going to produce in a place that is lucky to see 200. __________________ “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

January 9, 2016	#12
Deborah Riding The Crazy Train Again Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Marcos, California Posts: 2,562	The Silver Dollar eucalyptus is one of my favorite trees. I grow the mini ones from Johnny's Seeds. For us as you know they're a perennial. __________________ "The righteous one cares for the needs of his animal". Proverbs 12:10

January 9, 2016	#2
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	If you have some extra space - I would grow them. Maybe in a flowerbed or along a walkway.

January 9, 2016	#3
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,896	That is SO annoying! We have a (supposedly) reputable nursery that sells plants that are not perennial for our area, but they mix them in with the perennials. When asked direct questions, they admit that they are annuals, but I bet they catch a lot of people ..... Regarding onions, I guess the people who ordered them simply didn't have a clue. It's always best to do our homework before buying. Linda

January 9, 2016	#4
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Hold the bus. The onion needs a certain amount of daylight to go into the bulbing stage. So with a short daylight onion like I need at around I think 10 to at the most to around 12 or 13 hours the critter wont get it until it is so hot they go dormant. Boom game over now in the fall they come back to life but the daylight is back down too short and they think it is another year. Ya hoo now I have a nice crop of onion seeds. Now with that said you WILL get the amount of daylight you need but it will come sooner. If you can keep them from freezing or what ever you will have a nice crop of onions with big bulbs. I can grow the long daylight onions here if I can keep them cool enough to keep them from going dormant in the summer. Does this clear it up any? Yes I do understand the stupidity of the big box stores and when and what they sell. It is a major pet peeve of mine. Worth

January 9, 2016	#5
ChiliPeppa Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Mojave Desert - California Posts: 368	Last year when the onion sets came in to Home Depot here they were simply in boxes labled red, yellow, white. That's it. Nothing else to indicate what the heck they were. The nursery staff didn't know either and didn't care. So I purchased known starts elsewhere.

January 9, 2016	#8
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,919	I have learned this much that planting onions is more involved and tricky that one thinks. First is to get the right variety for your latitude: (1) Short Day ? (2) Intermediate ? (3) Long Day ? Then you have to decide how you are going to do it (1) From Seeds (2) from starts (3) from sets. Then each one of those will have to have different timing, DEPENDING on your climate ( in addition to the latitude) I have done it maybe 3 times, 3 different approaches and ended up getting a lot of them that bolted. Darn it, I bought the stuff from local nurseries assuming that they are selling the right variety. no: I quit growing onions. Growing Garlic is much simpler. .. and tomatoes is a piece of cake. A bag of yellow onions costs a couple of bucks. Gardeneer

January 9, 2016	#11
Salsacharley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,052	Wrong trees are much worse than wrong onions. I bought what was supposed to be a fuji apple tree and it took 2 years to find out it is a golden delicious. At least I like all apples but I am disappointed.

January 10, 2016	#15
taboule Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: MA Posts: 903	Hi, thanks for all your feedback, I didn't realize this was going to strike a chord ;-) Some comments back: 1) Yes, one of the first rules is "buyer beware." I am fairly new to onions and did my homework learning what short/long day meant. However this particular type (Granex) was new to me and the only/first seed I found that early, so I let my guard down -was too happy to find them and even thought about starting them on new year's day;-) 2) Salt, I have little room left and want to maximize my ROI. This is true for both growing the seeds indoors and transplanting in the spring. My main worry is really the labor/effort to plant the couple hundred little plants, spending hours hunched over -last year it got hard on my back,despite having developed an efficient technique. 3) Worth, thanks for your explanation WRT the mechanics behind the short/long differences. Had to read it a few times -brains are still cloudy from sleep and a hard/long work week. What I think you also said is that temperature also affects growth, and I get it in the case of long types in a southern zone. But in my case (short day type in a north zone): small plants goes in the ground in spring, say april after last frost, with the longest days still ahead, why would it not get big? I think you implied that it is possible to get good size. One inclination is starting the walla walla's inside (any day now) and sowing the granex right in the ground in april. Smaller investment, and what I may end up doing -thin some to eat green and see what happens to the rest. As far as other types of plants ill-suited for the locale: this past summer I saw fig trees for sale at a local nursery. Beautiful plants, with tiny fruits, in big pots, for around $100. These are fruits trees to grow in the ground, no way these would survive our winter outside. Thanks again for a good discussion.