Could it just be luck?

b54red · March 22, 2016

I can't figure out what is going on with my grafting this year. My success rate has gone through the roof this year so far. I'm knocking on wood now. So far this season I have successfully grafted way more plants than I can use and have already given away a bunch of them. I usually attempt far more grafts than I can use because frequently I have trouble with nearly whole batches not taking but this season has been totally surprising. Each batch is usually 24 to 26 that will fit in my healing chambers and it is not unusual to lose half of them; but this season instead of occasionally getting a batch with 90% success rate all but one of them has been at least that high. If this keeps up with the rest of my attempts I will be giving away the bulk of my grafted tomatoes because I don't need them for my own garden use. I am beginning to think the techniques I have been developing over the past few years are finally paying off. I guess learning the hard way, despite all the setbacks and frustration, eventually is paying dividends.

I am using RST-04-106-T, Estamino and Multifort for my rootstock this year and after I cut off the top I root it for later use in my next batch. That way I am getting an average of two grafts out of one seed and sometimes many more. If a rootstock gets too tall or large to be grafted onto I just take off the top and root it and that way I have very little waste of these expensive seed. This year I am also using more of the RST-04-106-T rootstock because of its apparent ability to ward off Bacterial Wilt which usually accounts for a significant loss of plants most years in my garden. I found that Multifort and Estamino did not seem to have much resistance to Bacterial Wilt and it was really frustrating watching some of those big beautiful plants just wilt away in a day or two. I'm hoping it wasn't just luck but last year not a single plant grafted to the RST-04-106-T rootstock fell to Bacterial Wilt. I am still using significant numbers of both Estamino and Mutifort because some varieties just seem to do better when grafted onto them than they did last year on the RST-04-106-T. Maybe this year I will get a better handle on which rootstock varieties do better when paired up with scion varieties in a graft. I am trying to plant one each of my pairings and planting them in the same bed when possible and at the same time so they get a fair test. I will try to keep up with the results and let everyone know when I know.

So far most of the scions I have used in grafting this year have been the large pink or red beefsteak types which I like to plant earlier in the season due to their poor fruit set during the peak heat months of mid to late summer. I am about to start grafting more of the black tomato varieties and others that do well in the intense heat of summer for set out in April, May and June. I'm sure my success rate will drop off some as the heat gets here but I'm hoping the changes I made to my grafting and healing regimen will keep my loses at a much more acceptable rate. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Bill

MissS · March 22, 2016

Bill I am so glad to hear that you are still learning and improving your methods and techniques for grafting. It's great that you can use one small plant for more than one graft. It certainly helps to defray the cost and you can share the joy with others as well.
I do hope that the purples and blacks are just as successful for you. Keep us posted on all that you have learned about the matches that you make.
Thanks for sharing and Happy Growing this year!

AlittleSalt · March 22, 2016

Bill, you have just gotten that good at grafting.

b54red · March 23, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Bill, you have just gotten that good at grafting.

Thanks for that compliment but I seriously doubt it as my hands have gotten less steady and my arthritis a bit worse so I'm hoping it is some of the steps I am taking that don't require any skills, just a little extra time. Of course it could just be plain dumb luck because success in grafting has been an on again off again thing for me over the past few years with little certainty of outcome. Whatever it is I'm going to enjoy it as long as it lasts.

Bill

Gardeneer · March 23, 2016

Bill, you have mastered the craft. There is no luck .

Gardeneer

parah · March 23, 2016

Hey B54red, maybe your good luck grafting this year is Karma from all the people you have helped on Tomatoville. My garden is better because of you.

Stvrob · March 24, 2016

You are just getting a better feel for it. I think we were both learning about the same time a few years back, and I recall now that worries about the plant drying out kept leading me down a path of failure. In fact, I think it was when delerium began posting about no roots rootstock is when I realized that too much water with no leaf firmly attached was causing the graft to pump water up and physically pushing the scion away to relieve the pressure!

I have had much greater success by severely limiting the rootstocks ability to pick up water. I will pull the rootstock out of the soil, trim most of the root with scissors, and finish the graft bareroot (which is easier because it can lie flat on the tabletop; since it is easier, I make a more precise cut).

Anyway, when I first started, I was so worried about keeping everything well hydrated and I didn't realize that those efforts were actually causing most of my problems. These little tomato plants were tougher than I realized at first.

PhilaGardener · March 24, 2016

Sounds like you've got it worked out! Congratulations!

b54red · March 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stvrob

You are just getting a better feel for it. I think we were both learning about the same time a few years back, and I recall now that worries about the plant drying out kept leading me down a path of failure. In fact, I think it was when delerium began posting about no roots rootstock is when I realized that too much water with no leaf firmly attached was causing the graft to pump water up and physically pushing the scion away to relieve the pressure!

I have had much greater success by severely limiting the rootstocks ability to pick up water. I will pull the rootstock out of the soil, trim most of the root with scissors, and finish the graft bareroot (which is easier because it can lie flat on the tabletop; since it is easier, I make a more precise cut).

Anyway, when I first started, I was so worried about keeping everything well hydrated and I didn't realize that those efforts were actually causing most of my problems. These little tomato plants were tougher than I realized at first.

I do basically the same thing except I just pull off the bulk of the roots on the rootstock then lay the scion directly on top and get a good match for where to make my cut then cut through both stems at the same time. I still find that keeping them closed in a healing chamber the first two days to be very helpful but I do open them a couple of times just for a few seconds and let in some fresh air. At the end of two days I leave them cracked open for a couple of days gradually opening them more.

The thing that I think has made the biggest difference is using the medium sized DE to plant my initial graft. I get it from O'Reilly Auto Parts and it is called OptiSorb. I fill a coffee cup with plenty of holes in the bottom 3/4 full with it then I charge it with liquid fertilizer at a mix of 2 tsps to the gallon and let it drain for a few seconds. Then I burrow a hole down through the middle with my index finger and put the graft in it and push the DE around it firmly to get it standing straight. I then put about 1/2 inch of dry OptiSorb around the base of the plant so that the top surface is dry then place it in my healing chamber. I keep the lid on and only remove it to place the next graft in it. When I am through grafting I mist the underside of the top lid and seal it up and keep it in an air conditioned place out of direct sunlight for two days. Since I have been doing this my problems with damping off have disappeared. I try to keep the healing chamber in an air-conditioned environment for at least 4 or 5 days when the temps are high and then when it has been fully open for a day or two I set it outside in the shade and give the plants another drink of fertilized water. When the plants seem to be healed enough to handle I dump the DE out and re-pot with potting soil and start hardening them off. I don't remove the grafting clips until the plant has been in the wind and sun for at least a week or two. I've lost too many grafts in the past by removing the clips too soon in the wind.

The exception to this procedure is when it is really rainy and damp I will sometimes go ahead and remove the top on the healing chamber as soon as the weather provides near 100% humidity and is not too hot. Opening the top early when it is too hot and dry sometimes caused catastrophic wilting and putting the top back on frequently will not help. Having too much moisture in the healing chamber without airing it out can also cause damping off or similar conditions. I am finding it is as much an art as a science kinda like pruning.

Bill

KarenO · March 24, 2016

nothing lucky about it, you know what you are doing

I've never tried it myself. Good work and I hope you have an awesome season, sounds like you are off to a great start.
KarenO

imp · March 24, 2016

Grafting is not only a skill thing it is an art. I have never grafted anything smaller than a bush or tree, and very long ago, but it sure sounds like you know what you are doing and the whys, as well as the hows. Good going and wishing the best success in the future.

March 22, 2016	#1
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Could it just be luck? I can't figure out what is going on with my grafting this year. My success rate has gone through the roof this year so far. I'm knocking on wood now. So far this season I have successfully grafted way more plants than I can use and have already given away a bunch of them. I usually attempt far more grafts than I can use because frequently I have trouble with nearly whole batches not taking but this season has been totally surprising. Each batch is usually 24 to 26 that will fit in my healing chambers and it is not unusual to lose half of them; but this season instead of occasionally getting a batch with 90% success rate all but one of them has been at least that high. If this keeps up with the rest of my attempts I will be giving away the bulk of my grafted tomatoes because I don't need them for my own garden use. I am beginning to think the techniques I have been developing over the past few years are finally paying off. I guess learning the hard way, despite all the setbacks and frustration, eventually is paying dividends. I am using RST-04-106-T, Estamino and Multifort for my rootstock this year and after I cut off the top I root it for later use in my next batch. That way I am getting an average of two grafts out of one seed and sometimes many more. If a rootstock gets too tall or large to be grafted onto I just take off the top and root it and that way I have very little waste of these expensive seed. This year I am also using more of the RST-04-106-T rootstock because of its apparent ability to ward off Bacterial Wilt which usually accounts for a significant loss of plants most years in my garden. I found that Multifort and Estamino did not seem to have much resistance to Bacterial Wilt and it was really frustrating watching some of those big beautiful plants just wilt away in a day or two. I'm hoping it wasn't just luck but last year not a single plant grafted to the RST-04-106-T rootstock fell to Bacterial Wilt. I am still using significant numbers of both Estamino and Mutifort because some varieties just seem to do better when grafted onto them than they did last year on the RST-04-106-T. Maybe this year I will get a better handle on which rootstock varieties do better when paired up with scion varieties in a graft. I am trying to plant one each of my pairings and planting them in the same bed when possible and at the same time so they get a fair test. I will try to keep up with the results and let everyone know when I know. So far most of the scions I have used in grafting this year have been the large pink or red beefsteak types which I like to plant earlier in the season due to their poor fruit set during the peak heat months of mid to late summer. I am about to start grafting more of the black tomato varieties and others that do well in the intense heat of summer for set out in April, May and June. I'm sure my success rate will drop off some as the heat gets here but I'm hoping the changes I made to my grafting and healing regimen will keep my loses at a much more acceptable rate. Keeping my fingers crossed. Bill

March 22, 2016	#2
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,150	Bill I am so glad to hear that you are still learning and improving your methods and techniques for grafting. It's great that you can use one small plant for more than one graft. It certainly helps to defray the cost and you can share the joy with others as well. I do hope that the purples and blacks are just as successful for you. Keep us posted on all that you have learned about the matches that you make. Thanks for sharing and Happy Growing this year! __________________ ~ Patti ~

March 23, 2016	#6
parah Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Asia Posts: 152	Hey B54red, maybe your good luck grafting this year is Karma from all the people you have helped on Tomatoville. My garden is better because of you. Last edited by parah; March 23, 2016 at 11:07 PM.

March 24, 2016	#7
Stvrob Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,413	You are just getting a better feel for it. I think we were both learning about the same time a few years back, and I recall now that worries about the plant drying out kept leading me down a path of failure. In fact, I think it was when delerium began posting about no roots rootstock is when I realized that too much water with no leaf firmly attached was causing the graft to pump water up and physically pushing the scion away to relieve the pressure! I have had much greater success by severely limiting the rootstocks ability to pick up water. I will pull the rootstock out of the soil, trim most of the root with scissors, and finish the graft bareroot (which is easier because it can lie flat on the tabletop; since it is easier, I make a more precise cut). Anyway, when I first started, I was so worried about keeping everything well hydrated and I didn't realize that those efforts were actually causing most of my problems. These little tomato plants were tougher than I realized at first. Last edited by Stvrob; March 24, 2016 at 02:42 AM.

March 22, 2016	#3
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Bill, you have just gotten that good at grafting.

March 23, 2016	#5
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,923	Bill, you have mastered the craft. There is no luck . Gardeneer

March 24, 2016	#8
PhilaGardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,940	Sounds like you've got it worked out! Congratulations!

March 24, 2016	#10
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,932	nothing lucky about it, you know what you are doing I've never tried it myself. Good work and I hope you have an awesome season, sounds like you are off to a great start. KarenO

March 24, 2016	#11
imp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 4,832	Grafting is not only a skill thing it is an art. I have never grafted anything smaller than a bush or tree, and very long ago, but it sure sounds like you know what you are doing and the whys, as well as the hows. Good going and wishing the best success in the future.