Container growing help needed

[isuhunter]

Hi everyone - I'm new to growing in containers and will be adding some more tomatoes in containers this year because I have filled my garden already. Last year I grew some in containers with minimal success.

I tried using the 5-1-1 mix and struggled to find the good nuggets.

A couple questions I have....

What is a good premix container soil? I have access to city compost for free. I also am near a menards, home depot, lowes, theisens, tractor supply, or a blains.

What size container do your recommend for a tomato plant?

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by isuhunter

Hi everyone - I'm new to growing in containers and will be adding some more tomatoes in containers this year because I have filled my garden already. Last year I grew some in containers with minimal success.

I tried using the 5-1-1 mix and struggled to find the good nuggets.

A couple questions I have....

What is a good premix container soil? I have access to city compost for free. I also am near a menards, home depot, lowes, theisens, tractor supply, or a blains.

What size container do your recommend for a tomato plant?

Ive had good results with promix, in Lincoln I get this stuff
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=40705

I like to add a little extra perlite, maybe 4 parts mix 1 part perlite.

For nutes I use about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of fox farm happy frog tomato and veg. granular fertilizer per month. Sprinkled around the edge of the pot.

[ContainerTed]

I would recommend 15 gallons (plus/minus). I use and then reuse each year Miracle Grow Potting Mix, Sta-green Potting Mix, or Mushroom Compost (sometimes a combination of two or all three of them). To that I might add some Black Kow, and, occasionally, some Organic Humus plus manure compost. I also throw a hand full of Dolomite Lime into each container.

I use Miracle Grow for tomatoes once every two weeks or so. If I feel I have really worn out the mixture, I'll add some generic 10-10-10 crystal fertilizer. I spray on a regular basis with Garden Safe. It is a fungicide/insecticide/miticide and really works well.

Hope this helps

[jillian]

I also had a difficult time finding the correct pine bark fines. Then someone posted here that it is sold as "soil conditioner" at Home Depot. I was there a couple weeks ago and checked it out. There was a bag with a hole in it so I was able to see it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Timberlin...5100/203732162

Wish I had known this but will definitely remember it for next year.

Happy growing!

[BajaMitch]

Container Ted, for a 15 gallon container, looks like you are spending about $10 for mix and fertilizers. If you buy a seedling, then it is at least $2.00 more (minimum $12.00) all for one plant. Is that about right?

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by BajaMitch

Container Ted, for a 15 gallon container, looks like you are spending about $10 for mix and fertilizers. If you buy a seedling, then it is at least $2.00 more (minimum $12.00) all for one plant. Is that about right?

Not quite. First of all, I usually don't buy many seedlings, and most of my larger containers are at least 6 years old. I get large black nursery pot (for trees) from a nearby nursery for free. I buy only 3 or 4 mature plants to get early tomatoes. This year, I started seeds for 189 varieties if I include the different vials from the Dwarf Project.

I live on a farm where the pastures behind me are used for cattle. A couple time each year, I take my little wagon and gather up some of the older "pasture patties" to add to my material stock. I also capture all my grass clippings for my compost pile. I throw vegetable type table scraps and some of the greenery from harvesting the garden into my compost pile. So, much of my "mix" for the containers only costs me my labor to gather it up and let it "season" well for use in the following year.

Something I'm looking at right now for bulk is the large piles of sawdust at the numerous sawmills around here. This year, I've acquired 4 pickup loads of composted sawdust. I'll be doing a few tests on it to see how soon I can use it. It is like a lot of stuff they put into mixes, it is just bulk. Most of the NPK comes from additives to that bulk.

I can tell you that this year, so far, my garden expenses are less than $60. That will give me 17 of my larger containers, plus 5 or 6 five gallon buckets. I pick up most of my 5 gallon buckets from the side of road, plus my great nephew sometimes brings me a few from his job.

Because I (essentially) manufacture a large part of my "mix", it is much harder to put an exact dollar number on my expenses. Growing tomatoes is my primary retirement hobby. The little bit I spend is a small part of my "entertainment funds".

So, this is just a guess, but I might have about $2 in one of the large containers.

Does this answer your question? I'm not typical.

[BajaMitch]

Thanks for the response, Ted. I see where you do a fabulous job at being resourceful and using the materials around you. Great way to save money by gathering manure from the pasture, using composted sawdust from the sawmills and making your own compost. A great big fat way to save money is to grow your own seedlings from seeds as you do. Learning how to harvest tomato seeds from fresh tomatoes is a primary goal for me this year. Right now, I am having to spend $2 to $3 per seedling this year. Next year I am going with my own seedlings.

I asked the question about your cost because of your previous post wherein you stated that you would recommend 15 gallons (plus/minus), Miracle Grow Potting Mix, throw a hand full of Dolomite Lime into each container, and use Miracle Grow for tomatoes once every two weeks. Here in southern California, Miracle Gro potting mix costs $7.00 for 11.25 gallons of it (1.5 cu ft bags=11.25 gallons). To fill a 15 gallon container with 13 gallons of "wetted/irrigated" mix would take at least 17 gallons of the mix as the mix shrinks by just over 20% when wetted/irrigated. That's $10.00 right there and the Miracle Gro fertilizer costs about $.20 per tablespoon.

It appears as though the cost would go down if you are successful at reusing the Miracle Gro mix, even though you would certainly have to reconstitute it with an array of purchased fertilizers to make sure that you would replenish the 16 nutrients tomatoes need. Might even have to add fresh peat moss since the much of the Miracle Gro mix would be broken down after one year and a growing season. Container tomatoes absolutely need the high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) that only fresh sphagnum peat moss brings to the table.

But, instead, I like the example of your using your own home made compost, gathering your own composted manure, considering composted saw dust and growing your own seedlings. Man, that's the way to go to save money and get good results. However, I would throw in some peat moss (for the necessary CEC) and some perlite (for the necessary aeration).

[ContainerTed]

Most folks who come here to Tomatoville end up wanting to save their own seeds. It's really quite easy. Here's a link to a document I put together to explain seed saving using the fermentation method. It's very basic and meant for folks like yourself who are just starting things

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation

If you haven't already done so, log Tatianas Tomatobase as a favorite. It is "hands down" the best information on the web for tomatoes, and some other veggies.

Regarding my methods of reducing costs on my containers, you should look around your area and ask questions. You'll find that you too can make new friends and acquire the materials you need to support this wonderful hobby and passion we all have. One thing I've found is that a lot of folks "over do" the tomato plant's needs and add extra expenses to their passion.

If you can come up with a medium that will support roots, you can add miracle grow fertilizer to it and grow tomatoes. Tomatoes are not all that fussy about their growing medium. Keep your main focus on nutrients and all the different ways to provide those nutrients. Remember that Hydroponic growers don't have any "dirt" at all. Keep it simple and you'll have more fun.

Take care

Ted

[Jeannine Anne]

Container Ted. I have 4 Rubbermaid totes, the huge ones, they are about 4 feet long at least 2feet wide and about 30 inches high. Rough guess but it is the biggest one can buy. These bins are full, there are 4 of them. I plan to grow something in them. What would you suggest to add. It The mix is the overflow from the soil that was purchased to fill my raised beds a couple of years ago, It was described as top soil and I was told it was for growing. We had two truck loads delivered..anyway, it is quite sandy. I have added peat to all my beds due to the sandiness and it seems to be working out fine. Last year I chucked all my spent pot soil into these bins to which was basically Sunshine 4, should I add anything to the mix, if so what. It is too much space to waste

XX Jeannine

[ContainerTed]

Jeannine, you say the original stuff in the containers was "soil". Then you have added used mix. It sounds like you need some "fluff" in there - something to allow some aeration. "Soil" will compact and create all kinds of container misery. So, a quick fix would be to get a bag of Sta-Green potting mix. Lowes and the other big box stores sell a big bag for about $11. It has the sticks, and other stuff in it that will allow some "fluffing" of the whole thing.

Hopefully, your "bath tubs" have some drainage holes. I wouldn't fill them all the way up. They are deeper than the plants can use. So, when you get about 16 inches or so deep with the growing medium, don't waste any more of a tub. If they've been sitting out for a winter or so, I'd mix in some 10-10-10 generic crystal fertilizer. Overwintering tubs and other containers outside is a sure fire formula for "wash out" of the nutrients.

Try this. Empty the tubs of all the contents into a wheelbarrow. Add some 10-10-10 and some dolomite lime and stir that up pretty good. Then put a three inch layer of new potting mix in the bottom of each tub. Add new potting mix to the original contents at a rate of at least 70/30 - meaning 30% new mix.

At the end of the year, take it all out of the containers and put in on to one half of a 15 x 30 tarp - all the container contents in one pile. Add in some lime and some 10-10-10 fert and cover up with the other half. About once a month or two during the winter, open up the tarp and stir the contents and add a small amount 10-10-10 fert.

This will reconstitute the whole thing and the stirs will cause the super fine particles to end up at the bottom. In the spring, open up the tarp and move the upper layers to clean containers using the 70/30 rule of adding new mix. The leftovers from this process can be added to flower gardens or spread out onto the main garden.

That's how I make use of all of it. For your containers, you need to keep one rule all the time. And that is to never put anything in your containers that is "soil". Always use "mix". You don't need dirt in the containers, because it is much harder to control nutrients and compaction of the growing medium.

[BajaMitch]

Ted, thanks again for the referral.

I agree with your assessment on growing tomatoes regarding the grow media. I have always thought that hydroponically grown tomatoes is telling us all that the real requirement for growing tomatoes is to get only the required nutrients to the roots in the exact amounts that the plant needs exactly when they need it. That comes to my theory about container growing of tomatoes in that I theorize that you do not need a vast quantity of grow media, therefore, you do not need a large container. I maintain that one can grow large tomato plants successfully in a small container, if one can administer the right nutrients at that right time in the right form that the plant can uptake right when it needs it.

My tomato growing goal in life is to derive the optimal tomato yield regarding container size and the optimal fertilization all at the lowest cost possible.

This year, I am conducting 16 experiments with 19 container tomato plants. Just completed planting last week. All plants have just about doubled their size in a little over one week, that is, all but one.

I spent the greater part of the last 10 months developing a fertilization recipe based on tomato growing studies and hydroponics studies. I have determined for myself the average amount of NPK, Ca, Mg, and Sulfur that a tomato plant needs in a growing season to the gram per chemical element. That is the basis for my fertilization this year. All my containers reflect that fertilization quantity. I will be watching each plant closely for any signs of nutrient deficiencies or excesses, all the while keeping meticulous records for each plant on plant size, yield, irrigation, leaf and stem condition and growth, and pH.

This years experiments are largely on the physical aspects such as differing container sizes, different grow rates between two cultivars and between different cultivars but both being determinates and between indeterminates, between SWCs and top watering drainage containers, and between containers with aeration holes on the sides of containers compared to identical containers without holes. Also, some experiments that differ the proportions by volume of potting mix ingredients: compost to peat to Kellogg Premium Potting Mix to perlite. Also, comparing results from three different application methods of fertilizers: fertilizer in the mix, periodically feeding the ferts, and using a strip fertilizer at/near the surface of the container. All experiments geared toward developing the optimum physical compositions of the mix, differing container sizes, and fert application methods.

Next year I will experiment with more aggressive fertilizer variations and potting mix recipe variations while taking into account and reflecting modifications from what I will have learned from this year's experiments.

So far, it is looking good.

[ContainerTed]

I can see that the scope of your endeavor is pretty large. I wish you all the success and luck in your efforts. The subject matter you're into is very complex. I hope you find the answers you seek.

For me, I only want to grow tomatoes that taste good. I don't care that one plant is super productive and the second one from the same seed source is much less productive. I have learned over the years that is I need more fruits from a variety, I raise more plants. I'll leave the "micro-data" point to those like yourself who would pursue that knowledge. At my age of 71, I have found that I need to make choices.

Experiment in the extremes and see what tomatoes give you back. Lots to learn there.

One last thought for you to consider. I have found that over the years, if I wanted my tomatoes to be a little bit "sweeter", I would add a small portion of finely ground red clay to the growing medium. This iron rich soil would make a perceptible difference. Nothing in stats or test results, just my perception. My father also felt this was true.

So, my encouragement and hope for your success in your endeavors. Good or bad, all truth is knowledge.

Ted

[Jeannine Anne]

Ted, thank you, the purchased "soil" was nothing like soil at all, I was very disappointed in it for filling my raised beds, It seems silt, sand, very loose even when wet nothing that would compact. I added peat as I said so that it had some water retaining qualities, my raised beds with this in are very loose and fluffy and they are doing OK. I think the brassicas would like it a bit heavier but they are growing. So there is nothing in the bins to compact at all, the opposite is more true. However your advice is wonderful, it was limed by the way last year when I had the load delivered as I checked the PH at the time and it needed adjustment. ..I will get my SIL to empty them and thoroughly blend them. They do have drainage holes in them.

I guess this stuff was a mix, it is available in bags or by the load and is described as a general mix fir growing flowers and veggies in.. I was surprised it was so sandy but with the pear it is OK now in the raised beds. I will fix the other as you say.

Thank you for all the help. I appreciate it very much


Now what to plant in it !!!!

XX Jeannine

[aftermidnight]

In my containers I have been using Sunshine mix #4 with added compost and a bit of Sea Soil. I have quite a few, I think they are 5 gal. white buckets, from the food industry. I have successfully grown pole beans and tomatoes in them the last couple of years. You do what you have to do when you run out of garden space .

Annette

[ContainerTed]

Jeannine, many suppliers will add a lot of sand to increase the drainage factor. If the sand is still dominant, then you might consider root crops like carrots and turnips, etc. the sand is the prime anti-compaction ingredient. If your containers drain the excess water away, but not enough for root crops, then that might be the best conditions for Tomatoes and Peppers.

Glad I could help even a little bit.