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Old May 23, 2016   #1
Jarrod King
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Default Tomato Terroir

I've been watching a lot of documentaries about vineyards because I like how they are similar to growing tomatoes. I've learned about the French term "terroir", which means the combined effect of the individual microclimate and soil you grow in on the taste of the product.

I see tomatoes as mentioned as being affected by terroir and I was wondering if anyone has any insight into that they'd like to share. Do tomatoes grown in sandy or clay soil have a different taste you can identify? Rocky soil? Hills? What influence do climates have? I've found that they need a lot of sun obviously, but what about more subtle variations? Right now my tomato patch of about 300 heirlooms is on a sandy slope in a clearing surrounded by forest and I sit and wonder how those are going to turn out this year and how each variety is going to taste.
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Old May 23, 2016   #2
ChiliPeppa
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I first read this title as 'Tomato Terrier'. So I thought you must have a little rat dog running around guarding your tomatoes.
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Old May 23, 2016   #3
TC_Manhattan
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I read this as Tomato Terror!

(As in American Horror Story, he, he..)
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Old May 24, 2016   #4
Worth1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa View Post
I first read this title as 'Tomato Terrier'. So I thought you must have a little rat dog running around guarding your tomatoes.
I thought the same thing.

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Old May 24, 2016   #5
dheideman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa View Post
I first read this title as 'Tomato Terrier'. So I thought you must have a little rat dog running around guarding your tomatoes.
Glad I'm not the only one!
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Old May 24, 2016   #6
BigVanVader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod King View Post
I've been watching a lot of documentaries about vineyards because I like how they are similar to growing tomatoes. I've learned about the French term "terroir", which means the combined effect of the individual microclimate and soil you grow in on the taste of the product.

I see tomatoes as mentioned as being affected by terroir and I was wondering if anyone has any insight into that they'd like to share. Do tomatoes grown in sandy or clay soil have a different taste you can identify? Rocky soil? Hills? What influence do climates have? I've found that they need a lot of sun obviously, but what about more subtle variations? Right now my tomato patch of about 300 heirlooms is on a sandy slope in a clearing surrounded by forest and I sit and wonder how those are going to turn out this year and how each variety is going to taste.
It has some effect but I believe the amount of water plays more of a factor as any tomato will be bland if it is watered to often. I do feel like my tomatoes are better than others I try though because of all the compost/manure/leaves I have incorporated but I am obviously biased.
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Old May 24, 2016   #7
Cheryl2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa View Post
I first read this title as 'Tomato Terrier'. So I thought you must have a little rat dog running around guarding your tomatoes.
I imagined a little dog eating your maters as that's what I deal with only a bigger dog. Lol.
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Old May 24, 2016   #8
reddeheddefarm
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It applies for everything we eat.
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Old May 24, 2016   #9
oakley
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I first thought it was the dwarf project+auto-correct. 'the terrier group'

A second glance i thought 'terror'...horror, Jarred, son of Stephen+auto-correct

Then i googled.

Terroir (French pronunciation: ​[tɛʁwaʁ] from terre, "land") is the set of all environmental factors that affect a crop's epigenetic qualities, when the crop is grown in a specific habitat. Collectively, these environmental characteristics are said to have a character; terroir also refers to this character.[1]

Some artisanal crops for which terroir is studied include wine, coffee, tobacco, chocolate, chili peppers, hops, agave (for making tequila and mezcal), tomatoes, heritage wheat, maple syrup, tea, and cannabis.


So yes, it affects everything we eat.

In home gardens we do stretch and amend the 'terre' and do whatever it takes to grow tomatoes in an environment not natural. Grown as annuals. Feed them, protect them.
My method and feeding and amended soil and climate will produce a very different harvest from others, with similarities.

My grapes, fruit trees, rhubarb, certain herbs, my maple trees, etc all rely on MotherNature growing naturally without any intervention.

If my tomatoes relied on my natural 'terre' and no help from me, my tomatoes would have the bland taste of the grocery since they would be purchased from grocery No grow without my help.
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Old May 24, 2016   #10
Dewayne mater
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Interested in this! Grapes, terroir clearly impacts them to a great degree. Tomatoes?
Only anecdotal, but yes, absolutely it makes a difference, in ways different than alluvial, schist, etc.

I think heat is number 1. More heat, more sugars, more concentrated tomato goodness. The price around here is as the heat goes up, it eventually stops production, but the bulk of what comes off from Late May through early July is terrific. Numerous people through the years who love tomatoes (I only give away tomatoes to people who express love of them, otherwise, its like giving a fine napa cap to someone who thinks boxed wine is the greatest.) I've been told things like, your tomatoes are the best I've had anywhere and some of these folks are world travelers with refined palates and who eat tomatoes everywhere they go. I don't profess to have any better tomatoes than others who grow heirlooms around here - I'm sure I don't, its just that most folks never have a great heirloom tomato at its peak grown in peak conditions.

As a counter, I've had Norcal tomatoes on multiple occasions from places extremely close to Wild Boar Farms because family is up there. I've had Black Crim up there that was watery, mild, and decent flavor on cool years, but in hot years, they've been pretty great.


The soil - unlike grapes, I haven't found that to be a huge difference in flavor. I grow in containers and in the soil and soil tomatoes are larger than container, but, the flavors aren't substantially different to my palate. Containers have a soiless grow medium, the ground has a lot of clay, though year and year I amend it with composts, leaves, and mulch. I've had terrific tomatoes grown in sand, but, I think they subject to uneven watering if you aren't careful. Also terrific toms in hydroponics. For me, type of soil is only significant if it impacts delivery of water and nutrients.

Water - a factor for sure. Too much water equals watery, diluted flavors. Too little, small fruit, thick skin. I also believe rain water makes for happier plants, but, I've never collected rain water, this is just observation based on plant response to rainy years like this one.

Too much heat - ultimately, the fruits shrink and the skins get crazy tough.

Those are my personal observations, never read any objective studies on this.

Micro climate - maybe. Some of my plants get a good bit of afternoon shade and in summer, that is a blessing. These plants definitely live longer, grow bigger and produce longer into the season. Early the season, the fruits aren't quite a great, but later on, they are fabulous. I've personally believed this is mostly due to hours of sunshine and shade from the most intense sun.

What do you think?
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Old May 24, 2016   #11
garyjr
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I would have to agree with Big Van and Dewayne. My county is well known in VA for the Hanover tomato. (Hanover county). There is a line just east of I95 were the soil is quite sandy. Appears the ocean once came up to this point. That condition along with hot humid summers seem to positively effect flavor. The farmers in this area rely on natural rainfall and rarely irrigate. We are prone to strong afternoon storms that drop a large amount of rain quickly followed by hot, humid conditions. This would support the notion of watering once or twice a week deeply versus watering every day. I once heard a guy when asked why he grew potatoes he responded "because he liked to water too often to grow tomatoes". One Guinness book record holder said one of his keys was using either natural or collected rain water or pond water versus municipal water supply. You can also get excellent tomatoes from the eastern shore of VA. Likewise, these are grown in Sandy soil. There have been a couple of studies that indicate salt water and possibly salt air have a positive effect on tomato taste.
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Old May 24, 2016   #12
rhoder551
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Jarrod King, Did you watch "Mondovino"? My all time favorite documentary that happens to be about wine.

I do think there is something to soil and taste in a tomato. I have very limited experience but I think tomatoes grown in containers are usually bland compared to tomatoes grown in garden soil.
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Old May 24, 2016   #13
AlittleSalt
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I thought the same as a lot of you did. A dog playing with a tomato https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONnyEHluvh4

Reply to thread topic - I have tasted a difference in vegetables grown with too much limestone in the soil. The veges tasted a lot like what limestone smells like.
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Old May 24, 2016   #14
Worth1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoder551 View Post
Jarrod King, Did you watch "Mondovino"? My all time favorite documentary that happens to be about wine.

I do think there is something to soil and taste in a tomato. I have very limited experience but I think tomatoes grown in containers are usually bland compared to tomatoes grown in garden soil.
I have some that is in container and garden soil the bottom of the container is in the soil where the roots can grow out.

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Old May 24, 2016   #15
PureHarvest
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I think most of it is placebo.
Provide the correct elements in the right ratio at the right time and you have provided what the genetics need to fully express themselves.
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