ISPL Heart Shaped???

[SharonRossy]

I'm growing the PL version of Indian Stripe this year for the first time and I find it to be smaller than the RL version and somewhat later; it also looks a bit like a heart shape. Just wondering if it's my imagination or what? BigVanVader gave me the ISPL seeds so I hope he weighs in here. I have yet to taste one as they have been slow going, which I will take the blame for. In my excitement for my new raised beds, I planted too many too closely and didn't maintain the number of stems. Consequently, lots of foliage and I think it got crowded out.

Would love some feedback on the shape.
Sharon

[b54red]

I just looked at your picture and those aren't ISPL. You may have a cross or just the wrong seed. ISPL is actually a bit earlier than regular leaf IS most of the time. It is the earliest ripening and setting of all the varieties I grow in the heat of summer. It is however a bit smaller most of the time, due I think, mostly to the number of fruits ISPL sets and it tends to be a bit rounder most of the time. If you need some true seeds send me a PM and I will try to get you some out this fall. I have five plants loaded with fruit for late summer and fall this year and it will be a while before any are ready for seed saving. I have plenty of older seed but they are getting a bit old and are not germinating as well as they did a few years ago so I'm hoping to save some new ones this fall.

Bill

[ginger2778]

There is an IS Heart which produces blunt hearts in my garden. Yours are a bit pointier. This could be good, keep us posted.

[seaeagle]

This is very interesting.They look identical to the Indian Stripe PL I am growing.I said in another thread that I wasn't sure I had the real Indian Stripe because every pic I looked at showed round dark tomatoes.The coloring although not complete in your picture is the same color mine are and they don't have that dusky look that other dark tomatoes have.Also said mine had odd shapes and were pointy.

Fortunately if this is an imposter I think I can track it down to the original source

[Cole_Robbie]

Mine may have been a little pointy. I honestly didn't care for them very much, so I didn't save seeds.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

I'm growing the PL version of Indian Stripe this year for the first time and I find it to be smaller than the RL version and somewhat later; it also looks a bit like a heart shape. Just wondering if it's my imagination or what? BigVanVader gave me the ISPL seeds so I hope he weighs in here. I have yet to taste one as they have been slow going, which I will take the blame for. In my excitement for my new raised beds, I planted too many too closely and didn't maintain the number of stems. Consequently, lots of foliage and I think it got crowded out.

Would love some feedback on the shape.
Sharon

If Bill (b54red) says that is not ISPL, but is crossed or wrong seed, he should know -- and the look of that fruit, and your observations about its performance do suggest that it isn't consistent with usual performance of ISPL in more ways than the unusual shape.

I've found ISPL mostly earlier, more vigorous, and comparable in fruit size and shape to original Indian Stripe -- though as b54red says, the fruit load can make a difference in size. I have seen clear heart shaped fruit on ISPL, but it's unusual -- perhaps some sort of potential that is only expressed under certain conditions.

If I was going to grow only one from the Indian Stripe family it would be ISPL.

But I don't grow only one, I keep growing multiple plants of original IS, ISPL and ISPL heart? for comparison purposes. Performance does vary, but they all produce good IS fruit.

Below is a form comparison pic from several years ago. On the left is IS original above ISPL -- similar in size and shape. On the right are five IS Heart? fruit. The top one is characteristic of size -- similar to original IS and ISPL. The other four I believe were smaller because they were hurried to ripen earlier than they otherwise would have by ending of our short season. The one with the slightly more hearty look in the pic is the parent of ginger2778's IS Heart? s -- but, while there is probably a heartish tendency there -- I have not yet seen consistent heart production performance from that line. Most of what they produce are good regular Indian Stripe fruits, though.

[carolyn137]

I have offered RL and PL IS in recent seed offers and those who have grown both in the same season, and have reported back on the Fall results thread I put up have said they thought the two were about the same except for leaf form.

I could check that if necessary by going back to the reports but I'd rather not based on other priorities.

As for a heart form for IS, IMO it's not a given at this point. Some have said,and shown pictures,of a blunt heart.

A small group was set up to exchange seeds of possible hearts that I think were JLJ and Marsha and I can't remember the third.

But it was Marina in Russia who got the heartiest ones,and I know I asked hera bout that and seeds,she didn't answer for a long time,can't remember,but I got no seeds from her,that I know.

IS has mimiced Cherokee Purple in all ways,that is, CP has PL variants and also a heart form saw it, not so sure, so why not IS having a PL form as well as a true stable heart ready to be distributed widely as well,just not yet as I see it.

Carolyn, no furry friends left in my home to be mom to,so I've become mom to some of my more successful tomato introductions,of which Indian Stripe is one.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

[seaeagle]

To be fair not all the tomatoes are pointy.Some are round and other shapes.The color the best I can describe it is somewhere between burnt orange, red and sorta dusky pink.They taste good, but they just don't grow that well in my garden.Add to that the lack of leaf cover and the fact the stink bugs have declared this tomato as their winner of this years varieties.

It probably is Indian Stripe and in another area would grow just fine.

If I had hired a team of tomato breeders to breed tomatoes specifically for my garden soil and weather conditions they would have come up with Eva Purple Ball, Cherokee Purple, and Jet Star.Big Beef will not even grow well here.It grows a huge plant sets what seems like 50 or more tomatoes and when the humidity hits they turn orange and don't ripen to what they are supposed to be.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

. . . As for a heart form for IS, IMO it's not a given at this point. Some have said,and shown pictures,of a blunt heart.

A small group was set up to exchange seeds of possible hearts that I think were JLJ and Marsha and I can't remember the third.

But it was Marina in Russia who got the heartiest ones,and I know I asked hera bout that and seeds,she didn't answer for a long time,can't remember,but I got no seeds from her,that I know. . .

I think the efforts regarding a couple of interesting tomatoes may have gotten mixed.

Several years ago, in discussing new varieties a couple of us asked about Selbo's Ribbed Red, which you'd asked someone to grow out, but there had been weather problems so it had been destroyed and not made the roster for next season growing. You said you had a few seeds left, so a group was set up with three of us who grew it out and sent you seeds in 2014.

There wasn't really a group set up regarding Indian Stripe Heart?. You offered it in your 2013 seed offer, but there were very few germinations and almost no productive plants. I did get one plant that produced fruit -- not production that I would call reliable hearts, but with what an optimistic view might call some sorta kinda heartish tendencies.

After a bit I did some posting to find out if anyone else had seen any reliable IS Heart producing plants, via your seed offer or earlier sources. No real results except that Marsha was interested, so I sent her some of my IS Heart? bagged seeds, as well as bagged seeds from my best ISPL plant. In her 2014/2015 season she grew one plant of each in a shared Earthbox and the IS Heart? one produced more or less regular looking IS fruit the 1st part of that season, then produced some more blunt-heartish fruits during the last weeks of her season.

I also sent some seeds to another person in 2014 who'd expressed interest, but never heard of any results -- and Marsha distributed some seeds from her heartist fruit in her seed offer, but if there were any reliable heart producing plants I haven't heard of it.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE IS SEEING PLANTS THAT CONSISTENTLY PRODUCE INDIAN STRIPE HEART SHAPED FRUIT PLEASE SPEAK UP, AS ONE REASON TO REPEAT THIS DISCUSSION EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE IS TO FIND OUT IF THERE ARE SOME "REAL" IS HEART PRODUCERS OUT THERE.

Marsha also sent me five seeds from those heartier late season 2014/2015 season fruit. I planted them all and three productive plants resulted this season, but it's too early to tell whether any of them are expressing hearty tendencies -- I'm hoping the frost holds off. I believe she sent you a few seeds also, and I sent you some from the same batch as the seeds Marsha had received from me but I don't know if they were grown out and, as I said when I sent them, I wouldn't urge anyone to spend time on them unless they were particularly interested in Indian Stripe and the possibility of a reliable heart form of it.

In forum discussions of all the above, Marina posted that she'd had at least one IS Heart plant that produced from your 2013 seed offer and that its fruit did seem hearty and that she'd send you seeds -- so it would be interesting to compare seeds from her plant to the children and grandchildren of my plant if she is able to send seeds of it to you sometime . . . I believe that after one of our earlier discussions I sent you an envelope just in case some IS Heart? seeds that warranted testing turned up . . . but as we said earlier, there are many possible reasons Marina may not have been able to do so and I don't think we currently know of any other promising source.

As I recall, you also went through your IS Heart seeds, picked out some good looking seeds and sent them to someone on the forum to try a 2014 growout, but it must not have worked as I don't think you ever got any seeds from that. I have the name somewhere, but not right here.

So there hasn't really been any group to grow IS Heart? seeds, just some of us that have been watching for signs of Indian Stripe Heart? that warrants the omission of the ?

As well as the three plants that resulted from Marsha's late season heartiest fruit I have three productive plants out from my same seed batch that produced Marsha's plant but -- too early to have any opinions - I hope the voles and the weather will let them mature at least enough fruit to see what they do -- we'll see.

Really, I continue to think that IS Heart shows promise, but is not ready for prime time. The most I maybe possibly expect is manifestation of some sorta heartish tendencies. But if they mature fruit, it will be good IS fruit, anyway.

ISPL, on the other hand, is the champion IS performer for me. And the original IS plants are trying hard to catch up with it.

[carolyn137]

[QUOTE=JLJ_;588477]I think the efforts regarding a couple of interesting tomatoes may have gotten mixed.

Several years ago, in discussing new varieties a couple of us asked about Selbo's Ribbed Red, which you'd asked someone to grow out, but there had been weather problems so it had been destroyed and not made the roster for next season growing. You said you had a few seeds left, so a group was set up with three of us who grew it out and sent you seeds in 2014.

(true, Mike Selbo had sent me dried seeds on paper,I never grew it myself and there were I think 4 or 5 of you who volunteered and did so)

There wasn't really a group set up regarding Indian Stripe Heart?. You offered it in your 2013 seed offer, but there were very few germinations and almost no productive plants. I did get one plant that produced fruit -- not production that I would call reliable hearts, but with what an optimistic view might call some sorta kinda heartish tendencies.

(Yes,I did offer it in my 2013 seed offer

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=26028

But not in my 2014 offer

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=30732

And yes we were going to set up a group and exchange seeds,but agreed to wait until I got seeds back from Marina, but as I explained above,that never happened.)

After a bit I did some posting to find out if anyone else had seen any reliable IS Heart producing plants, via your seed offer or earlier sources. No real results except that Marsha was interested, so I sent her some of my IS Heart? bagged seeds, as well as bagged seeds from my best ISPL plant. In her 2014/2015 season she grew one plant of each in a shared Earthbox and the IS Heart? one produced more or less regular looking IS fruit the 1st part of that season, then produced some more blunt-heartish fruits during the last weeks of her season.

I also sent some seeds to another person in 2014 who'd expressed interest, but never heard of any results -- and Marsha distributed some seeds from her heartist fruit in her seed offer, but if there were any reliable heart producing plants I haven't heard of it.

******

(I have no idea who Marsha or you sent seeds to,that was not shared with me)

IF ANYONE OUT THERE IS SEEING PLANTS THAT CONSISTENTLY PRODUCE INDIAN STRIPE HEART SHAPED FRUIT PLEASE SPEAK UP, AS ONE REASON TO REPEAT THIS DISCUSSION EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE IS TO FIND OUT IF THERE ARE SOME "REAL" IS HEART PRODUCERS OUT THERE.

Marsha also sent me five seeds from those heartier late season 2014/2015 season fruit. I planted them all and three productive plants resulted this season, but it's too early to tell whether any of them are expressing hearty tendencies -- I'm hoping the frost holds off. I believe she sent you a few seeds also, and I sent you some from the same batch as the seeds Marsha had received from me but I don't know if they were grown out and, as I said when I sent them, I wouldn't urge anyone to spend time on them unless they were particularly interested in Indian Stripe and the possibility of a reliable heart form of it.

******

(I don't remember if Marsha sent me seeds,or even you,possible if I was the one who was supposed to be distributing them after seeds back from Marina.)

In forum discussions of all the above, Marina posted that she'd had at least one IS Heart plant that produced from your 2013 seed offer and that its fruit did seem hearty and that she'd send you seeds -- so it would be interesting to compare seeds from her plant to the children and grandchildren of my plant if she is able to send seeds of it to you sometime . . . I believe that after one of our earlier discussions I sent you an envelope just in case some IS Heart? seeds that warranted testing turned up . . . but as we said earlier, there are many possible reasons Marina may not have been able to do so and I don't think we currently know of any other promising source.

As I recall, you also went through your IS Heart seeds, picked out some good looking seeds and sent them to someone on the forum to try a 2014 growout, but it must not have worked as I don't think you ever got any seeds from that. I have the name somewhere, but not right here.

(Right now I don't remember who did the seed production back then,it had to be one of my 4 regular seed producers, and no way do I remember who I might have sent those so called good seeds to,but I do remember that the seeds,many of them were concave on both sides,tossed them and tried to find enough good seeds.)

So there hasn't really been any group to grow IS Heart? seeds, just some of us that have been watching for signs of Indian Stripe Heart? that warrants the omission of the ?

As well as the three plants that resulted from Marsha's late season heartiest fruit I have three productive plants out from my same seed batch that produced Marsha's plant but -- too early to have any opinions - I hope the voles and the weather will let them mature at least enough fruit to see what they do -- we'll see.

Really, I continue to think that IS Heart shows promise, but is not ready for prime time. The most I maybe possibly expect is manifestation of some sorta heartish tendencies. But if they mature fruit, it will be good IS fruit, anyway.

(I agree as to promise,I posted that above,and I also agree with prime time,as to general distribution,which I also posted above.)

ISPL, on the other hand, is the champion IS performer for me. And the original IS plants are trying hard to catch up with it.

Carolyn

[SharonRossy]

I will continue to post photos of my ISPL fruit which for the most part are looking heart shaped. I gave my neighbor one plant to grow this summer and hers are more blunt looking and the color is quite dark. I guess I just never let my IS fruit get that dark before eating them. I'm hoping to get a few more before the four legged rats do. So far for my climate, ISRL definitely performed better, but it's not a fair assessment given that it's only the first time growing the PL one.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

I will continue to post photos of my ISPL fruit which for the most part are looking heart shaped. I gave my neighbor one plant to grow this summer and hers are more blunt looking and the color is quite dark. I guess I just never let my IS fruit get that dark before eating them. I'm hoping to get a few more before the four legged rats do. So far for my climate, ISRL definitely performed better, but it's not a fair assessment given that it's only the first time growing the PL one.

Are they something like the one in my avatar ?
I got the seeds from store OP few years ago. But mine has RL.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

I will continue to post photos of my ISPL fruit which for the most part are looking heart shaped. I gave my neighbor one plant to grow this summer and hers are more blunt looking and the color is quite dark. I guess I just never let my IS fruit get that dark before eating them. I'm hoping to get a few more before the four legged rats do. So far for my climate, ISRL definitely performed better, but it's not a fair assessment given that it's only the first time growing the PL one.

If you like the tomato you have, that's wonderful -- accidental crosses are how many great tomatoes originate, but it shouldn't be called ISPL if it isn't . . . and b54red is the person who would know.

You might call it Sharon's Indian Heart or something of that sort if it turns out to breed true and to be something you like. But you listed several ways in which it does not match ISPL.

If you are interested in ISPL, you have the great good fortune of b54red's offer to send you true seed. You can't get ISPL seed that's any more 'true' as he's the original source for ISPL.

If I recall correctly it was in 2010 that he first discovered a potato leaf plant among his Indian Stripes -- then checked it out to see if plant and fruit characteristics and flavor matched the original Indian Stripes except for leaf form and then offered seed to others, directly, and via Carolyn's seed offers.

(Carolyn's seed offers are her way to broaden distribution and seed saving opportunities for quality varieties that are not widely known -- and she knew about ISPL about as soon as it appeared, as I think she was the first person that b54red consulted about it -- as she's the first person many consult when they see some tomato development that might be interesting.)

[Gardeneer]

I am growing the original version (ISRL) and it is doing great. CP next to it has much bigger tomatoes but not as many. They are both keepers.

[carolyn137]

For those interested in the origin of IS PL,here's the thread and it happened back in 2010.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...pe+Potato+Leaf

Carolyn