First Casualties of 2017- DLH and Rebel Yell

[Spartanburg123]

I planted 24 varieties in the ground, and all are doing wonderfully. I planted 5 in pots- DLH (original seed), a DLH PL variant from Dutch's seed, Rebel Yell, Post Office Spoonful, and Black Vernissage. The first three have succumbed to something that I was told could be spider mites, an iron deficiency (soil pH too high), or even a splash of Round Up during a windy day. I tried to lower the soil pH slightly using dilute vinegar, with no effect. I sprayed Ortho permethrin/sulfur treatment on and under all leaves, even the soil. This has not resulted in any visible improvement. In fact, the three plants are dying from the top down. I took a leaf into work and looked under the microscope, but only found a few mites. The leaves are now stunted, stiff, and inelastic. This is especially true on the growth stem on all three plants. The bottom leaves are fantastic, the stem is stocky, but it's as if something catastrophic happened to all three plants (sitting side by side) on the same day- dead at the top. Here are a few pics of the DLH, DLH PL? and the Rebel Yell that have succumbed to whatever this is.
The Post Office Spoonful and the Black Vernissage appear to be just fine.

As always, I appreciate everyone's input on possible causes.

[PhilaGardener]

Did you plant them in commercial compost/potting soil in those containers?

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by PhilaGardener

Did you plant them in commercial compost/potting soil in those containers?

Yes I did! And I was wondering if that was the problem- something in the soil. I used Miracle Grow potting mix, and I also blended in some dirt from my compost pile. I also added a small amount of rabbit poo for good measure.

They were growing great, healthy as could be, then bam! All three started shriveling up at the top.

[Cole_Robbie]

It looks like herbicide drift to me. If the healthy plants are in the same media, then the problem is not the media.

[MissS]

I'm so sorry to hear about this problem. May I suggest that you try planting a bean or two in this soil and see how they do. If they sprout and show similar symptoms then it is your soil to blame. Somehow it was infected with herbicides if the bean plants fail.
If it is not the soil, then I would say that they came into contact with a herbicide product. At first I thought that it was an iron deficiency, but with the curly misshapen leaves it sure appears to be a chemical that the plants are re-acting to.
Sometimes they do grow out of this. You could try to save them by moving them into another soil after rinsing all of their leaves and roots. Even after all of that effort, only time will tell...

[Spartanburg123]

Cole- the nefarious vision of someone coming by and spritzing my growth stems with Round-Up has crossed my mind. But not likely. I do prep my spray canisters of Round-Up right there, true. Perhaps a gust of wind could have gotten them.

About the soil though- the first three pots are primarily MiracleGrow potting soil (bad ones), and the other two smaller pots are my composted soil. So they aren't all the same.

Have you seen problems like this with store-bought soil?

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

I also blended in some dirt from my compost pile.

Over the 3 years I've been here at TV, I have read that others have problems with using compost in the earlier stages of plant life.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

I do prep my spray canisters of Round-Up right there, true. Perhaps a gust of wind could have gotten them.

Doesn't take much more than a very gentle breeze to spread the stuff. I would keep Round-up as far away from your plants as absolutely possible.

[Cole_Robbie]

I bought some bagged compost at Menard's on clearance a few years ago, and that stuff was poison. It either had herbicide, or micro-nutrients were so out of whack that it might as well be poison.

[clkeiper]

I think they look like herbicide damage myself... I have quit using rabbit poop because I have seen them look like this after adding it to the high tunnel tomatoes. I think the crop must be sprayed with some kind of herbicide and this is residual. the other thought I had was those balled leaves look like what happened to one of my crops of seedlings after I sprayed with neem oil for aphids last year. they survived but I should have started over. roundup would not do that ( it kills it dead)... 2-4d will though.

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

I think they look like herbicide damage myself... I have quit using rabbit poop because I have seen them look like this after adding it to the high tunnel tomatoes. I think the crop must be sprayed with some kind of herbicide and this is residual. the other thought I had was those balled leaves look like what happened to one of my crops of seedlings after I sprayed with neem oil for aphids last year. they survived but I should have started over. roundup would not do that ( it kills it dead)... 2-4d will though.

Keiper- I too sprayed Neem oil on the plants, but only after they looked like this. All the other plants look fine after the Neem treatment. I am leaning towards herbicide drift too...

[Gardeneer]

Did you plant them in commercial compost/potting soil in those containers?

I think that PG Nailed it,
Commercial Compost >>> Herbicide

Your first 3 pictures are typical herbicide damage look to me.

My other suspect is the colored/dyed mulch that you are using.
Tomatoes are highly sensitive. Not just to herbicides. Black Walnut roots, leaves for example can kill them too.

[Spartanburg123]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I think that PG Nailed it,
Commercial Compost >>> Herbicide

Your first 3 pictures are typical herbicide damage look to me.

My other suspect is the colored/dyed mulch that you are using.
Tomatoes are highly sensitive. Not just to herbicides. Black Walnut roots, leaves for example can kill them too.

Thanks Gardeneer. I have always used that mulch, and the other 24 plants are just happy as clams with it. I do tend to agree with bad soil and herbicides- can someone suggest something to use that is better? Should I just use the composted soil from my pile, or choose another brand?

Thanks!

Darin

[Ricky Shaw]

I think a low percentage of these cases are drift because: 1) what clkeper said, round-up kills them dead, a lot of these cases are in neighborhoods, people are not drifting 2-4d products. 2) this stuff is being reported all over the country carried in bags of manure and compost. 3) I'm not hearing stories of soilless growers experiencing these problems.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Spartanburg123

Thanks Gardeneer. I have always used that mulch, and the other 24 plants are just happy as clams with it. I do tend to agree with bad soil and herbicides- can someone suggest something to use that is better? Should I just use the composted soil from my pile, or choose another brand?

Thanks!

Darin

You can make your own soil less mix really economically, if you can get very fine pine bark nuggets or just pine bark mulch. Sometimes it is also sold as "Water Saver".

Here is the infamous Al Tapla recipe called 5- 1- 1
-- 5 parts pine bark fine ( <= 3/8" in size)
-- 1 part Peat Moss
-- 1 part coarse perlite:

Add one cup of Dolomitic lime per cubic foot of the mixture. This will raise pH and supply Calcium and Magnesium.
Add about 1 cup of MG "Shake N Feed" for tomatoes and peppers.

Alternatively you can substitute FloorDry for Perlite. THAT IS WHAT i DO. I get OptiSorb from O Reiley parts store. It is 100% DE.
COST : Under 40 cents per gallon ( $2.50 - $3 per cu-ft)
It is superior to anY commercial soil less potting mix, in my opinion.