Cherokee Green - related to Ch. Purple?

Fert1 · March 11, 2007

I had been wondering about something and finally decided to just ask. Is the variety Cherokee Green at all related to Cherokee Purple?

**nctomatoman** · March 12, 2007

Yes, they are. To make a long story short, Cherokee Chocolate appeared as a mutation in Cherokee Purple in one plant back in 1995. I sent some seed to someone, who grew out Cherokee Chocolate then returned seed to me. From his seed, I got one plant with green fleshed fruit that appeared to be stable as well - hence Cherokee Green - that appeared in 1997.

pooklette · March 12, 2007

I think so, yes. If I understand this correctly, Cherokee Green arose from a mutation of Cherokee Chocolate...which arose from a mutation of Cherokee Purple. Did that make sense?

As I understand it, Cherokee Chocolate is identical to Cherokee Purple except for its skin color (which is yellow instead of CP's clear skin) and Cherokee Green is suspected to be a mutation of Cherokee Chocolate (as opposed to being the offspring of a cross.) Geesh...I hope I have that right.

Edited to add: Yeah...what Craig said.

**nctomatoman** · March 12, 2007

I see we were typing at the same time! Yes, you've got it!

Fusion_power · March 12, 2007

Thats the top end, the genetic end is another story. We've discussed this several times in the past. Most green when ripe varieties carry the gene for yellow skin and yellow skin is what makes Cherokee Chocolate appear... well... chocolate. My speculation is that Cherokee Purple crossed with a green when ripe variety producing Cherokee Chocolate. A later segregation brought back out the green when ripe genetics to produce Cherokee Green. Interestingly enough, you would have to grow a minimum of 16 plants of Cherokee Chocolate that carried the green when ripe gene just to get one Cherokee green.

So much for my speculation. Craig is still at least half convinced Cherokee Chocolate was a garden mutation.

As a side note, I had a single plant of Cherokee Chocolate in my garden last year that was much more fuzzy than normal. I think it may have crossed with Smoky Mtn Red which is a highly pubescent variety. I have several seedlings just starting on first true leaves to see what strange new Cherokee we are about to be enamoured with.

Fusion

Grub · March 12, 2007

Keep us posted, Fusion.

**carolyn137** · March 12, 2007

Fusion, the only difference between CP and CC is an epidermis mutation from clear to yellow making CC a darker mahogany color. But all else remains the same.

Keith went thru the genetics of how Cherokee Chocolate could mutate directly in a single step to what we know as Cherokee Green, but I've forgotten all that he explained as to possible gene(s) involved. Sorry.

Fert1 · March 12, 2007

Thanks everyone. I had been wondering about that for a while, and had guessed it was something along those lines, but it's nice to know for sure.

feldon30 · March 14, 2007

Where are those at-home plant DNA tests when we need them?

March 11, 2007	#1
Fert1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Upstate SC, Zone 7 Posts: 543	Cherokee Green - related to Ch. Purple? I had been wondering about something and finally decided to just ask. Is the variety Cherokee Green at all related to Cherokee Purple? __________________ Holly

March 12, 2007	#2
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Yes, they are. To make a long story short, Cherokee Chocolate appeared as a mutation in Cherokee Purple in one plant back in 1995. I sent some seed to someone, who grew out Cherokee Chocolate then returned seed to me. From his seed, I got one plant with green fleshed fruit that appeared to be stable as well - hence Cherokee Green - that appeared in 1997. __________________ Craig

March 12, 2007	#3
pooklette Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Zone 5 Posts: 262	I think so, yes. If I understand this correctly, Cherokee Green arose from a mutation of Cherokee Chocolate...which arose from a mutation of Cherokee Purple. Did that make sense? As I understand it, Cherokee Chocolate is identical to Cherokee Purple except for its skin color (which is yellow instead of CP's clear skin) and Cherokee Green is suspected to be a mutation of Cherokee Chocolate (as opposed to being the offspring of a cross.) Geesh...I hope I have that right. Edited to add: Yeah...what Craig said. Last edited by pooklette; March 12, 2007 at 12:16 AM.

March 12, 2007	#4
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I see we were typing at the same time! Yes, you've got it! __________________ Craig

March 12, 2007	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Fusion, the only difference between CP and CC is an epidermis mutation from clear to yellow making CC a darker mahogany color. But all else remains the same. Keith went thru the genetics of how Cherokee Chocolate could mutate directly in a single step to what we know as Cherokee Green, but I've forgotten all that he explained as to possible gene(s) involved. Sorry. __________________ Carolyn

March 12, 2007	#5
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Thats the top end, the genetic end is another story. We've discussed this several times in the past. Most green when ripe varieties carry the gene for yellow skin and yellow skin is what makes Cherokee Chocolate appear... well... chocolate. My speculation is that Cherokee Purple crossed with a green when ripe variety producing Cherokee Chocolate. A later segregation brought back out the green when ripe genetics to produce Cherokee Green. Interestingly enough, you would have to grow a minimum of 16 plants of Cherokee Chocolate that carried the green when ripe gene just to get one Cherokee green. So much for my speculation. Craig is still at least half convinced Cherokee Chocolate was a garden mutation. As a side note, I had a single plant of Cherokee Chocolate in my garden last year that was much more fuzzy than normal. I think it may have crossed with Smoky Mtn Red which is a highly pubescent variety. I have several seedlings just starting on first true leaves to see what strange new Cherokee we are about to be enamoured with. Fusion

March 12, 2007	#6
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Keep us posted, Fusion.

March 14, 2007	#9
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Where are those at-home plant DNA tests when we need them?