A Dumb Question?

[velikipop]

This might be a dumb question but I have to ask anyway, especially since some favorite hybrids are being discontinued. How are hybridized seed created for the commercial market? Do growers have to repeat the same hybridization process each time or is there another method?

Alex

[Worth1]

"Do growers have to repeat the same hybridization process each time or is there another method?"

Yes they do.

http://www.tomatoville.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70

[feldon30]

Yes, each year they have to cross the two inbred parent lines and save seeds from those crossed fruit. And those parent lines can be quite complicated. And of course the parentage is almost never released, as it is considered extremely valuable trade secret information.

If you are really wanting to save a hybrid, and it's a fairly straightforward variety like, say, an early red round tomato, you can save seeds from the fruit you get this year (F2). Grow a few plants of those saved seeds as well as a few of the original hybrid seeds next year. Save seeds of those one or two plants (F3) which have fruit and production characteristics that are most similar to the characteristics in the hybrid you like most, and save seed from those fruits. Repeat for 2-4 more years (F4-F6) and you will end up with stable seeds that grow true each year and might have 75-85% of the preferred characteristics of the original hybrid.

Of course this is an oversimplification.

[velikipop]

Worth and Feldon,

Thanks for the response. I did not know it was that complicated and that growing hybrid tomatoes is such a secrative affair. The logic of the market does not seem logical at all when popular hybrids are discontinued!!

Thanks,

Alex

[nctomatoman]

The secretive nature is due to money. I really admire companies that feature heirlooms, since once you have the seed, you can save and share and don't have to return to the company for the variety. For hybrids, you must purchase seed from the company when you run out - not that it is a bad thing, just the reality of the marketplace. Still, it is hard to see why some companies try to squeeze 4 and 5 dollars for packets of 10-20 seeds! Then again, those glossy catalogs with the doctored pictures and all that advertising does cost lots of money!

[feldon30]

So what hybrids are going out of production that are a growing concern to you (pun intended)? And what OP/heirlooms have you grown or are growing? Have you grown any Russian or Eastern European varieties?

I see you're about 20 miles from Washington State, so those varieties that do well in the Pacific Northwest are probably already on your list.

[velikipop]

Feldon,

I'm growing about 80 plus OP varieties this year mainly as a hobby to try what is out there and to preserve seeds. Yes, I am growing many Russian strains, especilally the blacks. The varieties that appear to have been discontinued are Early Cascade, bred for the wet cool climate of the PNW and a wonderful tomato, and Big Girl which is a favorite from my early years and brings back many memories of my mother's great vegetable garden. I still have a few seeds left of both.

I know that there are all sorts of other great OP's of equal quality but it bugs me, a bit, that perhaps these will no longer be available.

Craig, I have no problem with companies making a profit, that is what it's all about. I'm just curious how they would make decisions on what to carry or discontinue. I find many of the seed suppliers in Canada and the USA reasonable, though I try to support as many local and small suppliers if I can. The seed prices in western Europe are absolutely outrageous. Morgan/ Thompson and Sutton, both form the UK, charge $4 to $5 per packet.

Alex

[nctomatoman]

I am sure it is driven partly by demand, and partly by the ability to keep producing it (if they lose a strain, or find one of the parents is crossed, then they could not be able to keep it going). If an expensive to produce hybrid doesn't sell well enough - and with the public's desire for the next great thing, it is probably not a difficult decision to discontinue it....

[sirtanon]

Alex - I just purchased some seed for Big Girl.. took some looking, but I found it. If you need a few more seed of this one, just let me know.

[sirtanon]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I am sure it is driven partly by demand, and partly by the ability to keep producing it (if they lose a strain, or find one of the parents is crossed, then they could not be able to keep it going).

Craig, this actually made me think for a moment. We have seen, on more than one occasion, a hybrid variety discontinued and replaced with an "improved" version of said variety.. like Park's Whopper, Juliet, etc...

... I wonder, what could the possibility be that one of the parents used in this hybrid was accidentally crossed, and then ultimately grown out into the "improved" version, just to save face..?

[velikipop]

Sirtanon,

Thanks for the offer. I still have some left, but wouldn't mind purchasing about 50 seeds or more to save. If that is possible perhaps you can give the info on where you bought yours from.

Alex

[geol]

“How are hybridized seed created for the commercial market?”

-very labor intensive, which helps explain the higher prices.
AVRDC document detailing their method from start to finish

[cecilsgarden1958]

I just checked and the Burpees website sells Big Girl.

http://www.burpee.com/jump.jsp?itemI...rID=691&KICKER

CECIL

[feldon30]

Not sure why Burpee goes to the trouble to mention all this disease resistance Big Girl is supposed to have and then fail to mention the actual things it is tolerant to.

From what I can find in searches, Big Boy is VFT. Big Girl is only VF. So what's the deal?

[Worth1]

It seems I remember big boy and big girl from the 60's.
It was my mom talking to a lady named Myrtle Mueller about the new tomato called Big Girl while in the garden.
I might be wrong but I think thats what the name was.
then there was the old standard Jubilee everyone had.

What we need is an heirloom tomato called called Ruffled Hybrid or maybe Hybrid giant or just #1 Hybrid.
That would put a twist on things.

Do you guys think a tomato called Cardboard store bought would sell.

I'm trying to start my own seed business and need to come up with some names.

How about these for a start.
Black widow
Texas brags 8)
grand canyon
maybe a bi color called
Stripped ----- Ape.
The store bought tomato could be called
I cant believe it's a tomato.

I don't know why I did this.
I need help.

Worth