Fertilizer for new raised beds

[SarahBeth]

I'm growing tomatoes for the first time in new, 12" deep raised beds. They are filled with topsoil and about 15% organic compost from a local landscape co. The compost is supposed to be largely from food waste, but I notice some wood chips and leaves in it too.

When I transplanted my tomatoes and peppers about 3-4 weeks ago, I added about 1/2 c tomato tone to each partially filled trench/hole. They've grown a lot since then, but the color on most of them is poor. The Big Beef and Indian Stripe, in particular, have slightly purple veining and edges/tips and the bells are quite pale. I'm wondering if the TT will be adequate this season, since the soil doesn't have the microbes necessary to convert the TT constituents into usable compounds? I'm not sure if I understand correctly how that works. Would something like Texas Tomato Food be a better option?

[b54red]

I am a huge fan of Texas Tomato Food and recommend you order some as soon as possible and start using it. Their Vegetable formula works better on peppers, squash and most other things in the garden but the TTF is good for almost anything. I buy the TTF for my tomatoes, the Apples and Oranges for my citrus and seedlings, and the Vegetable formula for everything else. When I run out of one I will just use some of one of the others until I can order more.

Bill

[RayR]

The fact that the plants have grown a lot is a good sign but the off color of some of the leaves is likely due to some nutrient imbalances. That's not surprising in a newly created bed that the transplants are put into. "Top Soil" is a word that is used very loosely, where it came from and what it's made of is the question. I've seen top soil that is so poor quality that it's more heavy clay than anything else. Compost is best put on top of the soil like a mulch especially if it isn't completely finished. Finished compost should look like rich soil and and have a nice earthy smell, You shouldn't be able to see much of anything recognizable of the original inputs that made it. If the compost is finished and you were using a soil-free mix with peat moss or coco coir you could mix the compost into that, but compost mixed into so-called top soil...that's sketchy, for some people it may work depending on the soil.
If the soil doesn't have a good mix of microbes and higher soil organisms, that can be a initial problem in a new raised bed or a container culture when you are growing organically with dry organic fertilizers like TT. TT does contain some bacterial spore to aid in mineralizing. Even though there are plant available nutrients available, which is why your plants are growing, there are other things going on. Soil bacteria and fungi are competing with each other and the plant for nutrients. Bacteria and fungi are good at breaking down organic matter to extract nutrients but they are also not going to turn down an easy meal from available nutrients in the soil water, which is where they compete with the plant, at least at first. You have to realize that this new artificial environment you have created in a new raised bed hasn't had time yet to stabilize and run like a finely tuned organic system.
Everything starts with the microbes, they initially immobilize nutrients, hoarding them in their cells, in that state those nutrients are not plant available. They produce powerful enzymes that break down organic matter and minerals in the soil and they can hoard a lot of the nutrients they extract but some will still escape and be taken up by plant roots. They need a lot of nutrient to not only survive but to multiply in vast numbers. When they die or are consumed by predators like nematodes, protozoa, soil mites, earth worms or whatever, that's where the plant gets a greater share. Those predators can't use all the nutrients from the microbes they consume, so the excess is released back into the soil water as excrement which a portion of that will then be taken up by plant roots.
It takes a little time for a new soil food web to work efficiently, but there are things you can do to cheat and get the plant what nutrients may be missing in sufficient amounts in the mean time. If you go off the purely organic program you can use Texas Tomato Food which contains mainly soluble nutrients in pure salt form that the plants can use immediately. TTT also contains a third party product called Vitazyme which is an organic mix of enzymes and plant growth promoting hormones extracted from bacteria and plant sources.
If you want to stay on the purely organic program you can use a liquid organic fertilizer which contains a substantial amount of plant available NPK and micronutrients like fish hydrolysate or Fish Emulsion or some combination with kelp extract. These liquid products will also kick your microbial populations into high gear.

[Worth1]

I spread the plant tone out all over the top of the freshly hoed up garden and mixed it in.
And I mean a bunch of it.

Worth

[SarahBeth]

Thank you so much for the replies!

B54red- I've been reading all your posts about TTT, and your successs is what has encouraged me to perhaps give it a try.

Ray-this is very helpful info and what I was wondering about.

The compost was mostly crumbly and soil-like, but was definitely not quite finished, as it didn't smell great.

I didn't mention that I thourouhly soaked the new plantings with Great White, so perhaps that would further explain the plants' seeming resistance to nutrient uptake. I have Neptune's Harvest fish/kelp, so can try that next, but a few days ago I also fed the plants with some Jack's 20-20-20 that I had around (not organic, obviously). I'm surprised that it hasn't really made a difference yet. I want to be careful not to over-correct the problem.

Worth- how much TT would you put in a 4x10x1' raised bed (thinking ahead to next year)?

[Worth1]

The instructions say for plant tone say 4 pounds for 100 square feet of bed mixed in the top 4 inches of soil.
So you would need about 1/2 4 pound bag of plant tone or around 2 pounds for 40 square feet.

Now if you use tomato tone it says to use 3 pounds for 50 square feet.
That is a lot more per square foot than plant tone almost twice as much.
Reason is the lack of nitrogen which is why I think tomato tone is a hoax to get you to buy more fertilizer.

If you look at the difference you will see 5-3-3 for plant tone and 3-4-6 for Tomato tone.
That first number is almost exactly or very close to the difference in ratio as to how much they tell you to put out for each one

I have heard people say that the plant tone is too much nitrogen.
If they use both according to directions they are putting out close to the same at a higher cost for the Tomato Tone.
I think there are better ways to add a little more K to the soil than with dollars. Which by the way isn't needed for the most part anyway.
Peoples soil test say this over and over.

What did I use on the okra bed on one side?
I had a 5X6 area which is 30 square feet and I used about 2 pounds of plant tone almost 4 times as much as called for.
Worth

[Worth1]

For a better answer to your question I would just use the whole darn 4 pound bag of Tomato Tone and be done with it.
Not like it is going to hurt anything.

Worth.

[SarahBeth]

Interesting, Worth. Thanks.

(Been in the South 8 years now and haven't yet come to appreciate the taste of Okra ).

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by SarahBeth

Interesting, Worth. Thanks.

(Been in the South 8 years now and haven't yet come to appreciate the taste of Okra ).

Your welcome.

My ways aren't the best for everyone but they seem to work for me and only what I do.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by SarahBeth

Thank you so much for the replies!

Ray-this is very helpful info and what I was wondering about.

The compost was mostly crumbly and soil-like, but was definitely not quite finished, as it didn't smell great.

I didn't mention that I thourouhly soaked the new plantings with Great White, so perhaps that would further explain the plants' seeming resistance to nutrient uptake. I have Neptune's Harvest fish/kelp, so can try that next, but a few days ago I also fed the plants with some Jack's 20-20-20 that I had around (not organic, obviously). I'm surprised that it hasn't really made a difference yet. I want to be careful not to over-correct the problem.

Worth- how much TT would you put in a 4x10x1' raised bed (thinking ahead to next year)?

SarahBeth, I'm using Great White too. What I do with any mycorrhizal fungi , trichoderma & PGPR bacteria inoculant is I start using it from starting the seed. The bacterial spores and trichoderma spores will germinate rather quickly and will go to work in the medium, multiply and populate around the roots as they grow. The mycorrhizal fungi spores will germinate when they detect a growing root and will complete their association with the root in about a week or so. With mycorrhizal fungi it is important to not fertilize at first with anything with high available phosphorous (like Jacks 20-20-20). High available phosphorous in the soil water will inhibit spore germination. At transplant time I mix a 1/4 to 1/2 strength solution of Fish/Kelp and Great White and dip the transplant, pot and all into the solution until it's fully saturated and then remove the plant from the pot (obviously) and transplant into it's final home in the garden.
On "over-correct the problem", that's a nasty tendency of we human gardeners at one time or another to seek instant gratification.
We might make the problem worse by not having patience or by misdiagnosing the problem completely. Other factors determine nutrient uptake like soil PH.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Worth1

For a better answer to your question I would just use the whole darn 4 pound bag of Tomato Tone and be done with it.
Not like it is going to hurt anything.

Worth.

Worth, you have very alkaline soil too, so maybe overdoing the Plant-Tone has some benefit?? I tend to apply a little more than the recommended rate myself which doesn't hurt anything using dry organic fertilizers.

[oakley]

Your soil choice just might be too dense if not broken down...heavy, not enough air for
your plants. A fresh bed i like to add some peat. Allot of it.

Next year, especially in the Fall, cover it, as we call 'putting to bed'...suffocates weeds,
lets good stuff breed, worms love it, etc.

In the next Spring add some peat for loft, some fert raked in a week or two ahead of
planting...double dig. Loosens the lower level soil. Don't stomp it or compact it.

All your good stuff this year will break down and will not need much fert. (tomatoTone)
next year...15 yrs now i just add a cup or two to my same size beds and rake in.

A new bed with dense soil, fert in the planting hole, will concentrate the root mass in a
clump...so the roots don't search and spread for food and health. They suffocate.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by RayR

Worth, you have very alkaline soil too, so maybe overdoing the Plant-Tone has some benefit?? I tend to apply a little more than the recommended rate myself which doesn't hurt anything using dry organic fertilizers.

I know it helped big time from my experiments this year.
I tried everything chemical 16-16-16 and MG blue and it didn't work until I added the vinegar.
This year no vinegar but massive doses of plant tone on one side of the beds.
The other side no Plant Tone didn't even come close to comparison until I added vinegar.
Then I hoed up the center between rows and put in Plant Tone and it took off even better.
Plant tone is 1% sulfur and tomato tone is 3% sulfur.

Buy adding 4 times the amount just may have lowered the pH I have no idea.
I couldn't figure out why my onions got hot last year until I looked at the sulfur in plant tone and some other left over stuff I cant remember what was.

Worth

[zipcode]

As long as the soil is not sterile I personally wouldn't worry about microbes. They are in the organic fertilizer also. And your beds are not sterile anyway.
I used in my first year growing in peat only organic fertilizer and there wasn't really any problem (except some iron deficiency later on but that's because peat doesn't have minerals like a normal soil).
Usually lack of good colour and purple margins is either a sign of some micromineral imbalance (usually due to pH) or more often just poor nutrition (which can be due to lack of it, or roots aren't doing well due to waterlogging, burned by fertilizer or who knows what).
In this case usually a foliar spray should bypass the roots and help the plants directly, which might get them back on track, since a half a cup of fertilizer should be good enough for at least a month of good growth. I see people like fish emulsion and other stuff as foliar.

[b54red]

I too think your ground could benefit from more organic matter and peat is relatively easy to add and it helps hold water; but this fall I would also add at least one bag of pine bark fines and if you can find and old bag that has started to rot that is even better. If you can find a local feed store that has cottonseed meal in the 50 lb bag adding 5 to 10 lbs in when you add the peat and pine bark will encourage earthworms and then prior to planting each season add some more a week or two before planting. It not only attracts earthworms the cottonseed meal is a great slow release fertilizer. I add it before planting in the spring fall and winter and till it into the top 4 or 5 inches of soil and water it well. I use the Urban Farm fertilizers to maintain good growth and production every week to ten days with most vegetables.

Bill