Heirloom-a-phobia

[gardenscout]

I was engouraged to post this because of Craig's great thread inviting the lurkers to post more. Usually I just click around from thread to thread trying to learn all I can, and I normally don't want to bother anyone with my random queries. But here goes...

I am scared of heirloom tomatoes. I have only ever grown a few tomatoes in the past, all of which I picked up on a whim at a garden center. I rarely even looked at the name, and one time I bought, planted, and grew one that didn't even have a tag! All the tomatoes I have grown have all tasted pretty much the same, and not really that much different from grocery store tomatoes.

But now! I have stumbled into the tomato underworld, and I want to grow great tomatoes. I have a fine selection of seeds, some ordered and some traded (including my most valued seeds, which were generously sent to me by none other than Dr. Carolyn herself, in the Great Bloody Butcher Exchange.)

Which brings me to the whole phobia thing. I am scared that these heirlooms are all going to get diseases, or are not going produce well, or they are going to give me problems that I don't know how to solve. Hybrids are, I guess, designed to be easier, and I am afraid I am getting in over my head by trying to grow the real thing.

Here is my list: (I bet you can guess which ones I got from Carolyn.)

Cherokee Purple
Stupice
Kellogg's Breakfast
Eva Purple Ball
Omar's Lebanese
Neves Azorean Red
Tidewell German
OTV Brandywine
Bloody Butcher
Black Cherry
Sungold


I know they are not all heirlooms, so at least I can feel a little confident about growing the hybrids. I planted some of each of these seeds a few days ago, and they haven't sprouted yet (I check on them every hour or so, LOL.) But I know they probably will sprout, and the game will be afoot.

What have I gotten myself into?

[johno]

Most of the heirlooms were probably a hybrid at some point in the distant past... I don't think you'll find them any more challenging to grow than hybrids.

[bitterwort]

I'd say you've gotten yourself into a whole lotta fun, Scout, a whole lotta fun. I had similar fears about heirlooms when I started growing them (in pots because that's all the space I had), but I've definitely lost my fear. I think I was growing Celebrity at the time, and its fruits look lovely, but the texture and taste were nothing compared to the heirlooms (I think Box Car Willie and German Pink, if I recall correctly). And the heirloom plants were just as healthy and robust. I still grow Sungold because that's what got me started growing tomatoes in the first place, but other than a few hybrid cherries that folks mention as interesting, I generally don't grow anything but heirlooms. Any tomato can have a bad year or a good year, depending on your weather, so relax and enjoy yourself!

[Ruby]

The worst thing that can happen is that the plant dies and you don't get any tomatoes. That really isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things. You'll do fine!

[feldon30]

That is a very nice list of varieties you are growing there. And note that Sungold is actually a hybrid. Even the most diehard "heirloom only" growers have been known to slip in a Sungold or two. Some people find the fruity flavor to be almost funky, but I loved it last fall.


The biggest myth is that hybrid tomatoes are somehow "bulletproof", or even that they are significantly easier to grow than heirlooms. I do not believe this is true. I believe if someone can grow hybrids, they can grow heirlooms.

I don't want to "steal Carolyn's thunder" since I'm sure she will post an extensive response to your questions, so I will be brief.

All the disease tolerances you might hear about with hybrids refer to soilborne viruses like Fusarium or Verticillium, or soilborne critters like Root Knot Nematodes, yet the diseases most people encounter when growing tomatoes are fungal-based foliage diseases such as Early Blight, Late Blight, Septoria Leaf Spot, Gray Leaf Mold, and fungal fruit diseases like Anthracnose, caused by the leaves getting water, soil, etc. splashed onto them and not being allowed to dry.

Start with the right soil. It should be loose and drain well. It should not look like a swamp after a mild rain or after you water. If you have heavy clay soil, then digging a hole and filling it with good soil may not be enough, since you will just be creating a "bowl" that will fill with water. In Houston, this means rising above the problem. We build raised beds 6-12" high out of lumber and fill them with well-amended quickly draining soil. There should be lots of organic matter like compost, composted (not fresh) manure, humus, etc. in your soil. There should be some "lightness" to it from pine bark, peat, or other products.

Add a good layer of mulch to prevent soil splashing onto the leaves, which is one of the main causes of fungal problems. Wheat or pine straw are great. Some people use pages of newspaper and cover with grass clippings (these clippings should not have been exposed to Weed-n-Feed or Roundup type herbicides in the last 3 months). Still others use shredded leaves.

Water the soil, not the plant. Especially at night, your plants should go to sleep dry! Soaker hoses or irrigation drip systems are strongly encouraged for tomato growing. The only exception to wetting the plants is compost teas (literally taking some compost and covering with water and making a "tea" out of it) and seaweed or fish emulsions which are not required but some people like to give their plants a boost especially when the plants are "working hard" and setting and ripening a lot of fruit.

An ounce of prevention... Unless you are lucky enough to live in the desert, you'll want to investigate the various anti-fungal products out there. If you are purely organic, then Serenade and Copper sprays are de rigeur. Many of us use Daconil which is a low toxicity preventative spray that you simply wash off before eating the tomatoes.

I do think the right fertilization is important. Some people have incredibly rich soil with just the right mix of clay, sand, and organic materials and choose not to add fertilizer. For the rest of us, there is a balanced product I use called TomatoTone.

All of this advice won't count for anything if you don't get enough sunlight. Your tomato plants should get 6-8 hours of direct sun every day.

And I always have to put these disclaimers: This is only my second year growing tomatoes. And there is no one "right" way to grow tomatoes!

[Ruth_10]

Gardenscout,
I don't know where you're growing, but chances are you can grow good non-hybrids (heirlooms/OPs) there. I have grown both hybrids and non-hybrids and have not had a lick of trouble with the non-hybrids. Bittenwort (above) hit the nail on the head--most years some one or the other tomato will do poorly for unknown reasons, or some years the weather will stink and everything will suffer. Plant several varieties to up your chances of having something with just the right stuff for whatever weather/conditions you have that year. Good luck--you're gonna love growing tomatoes.

[pooklette]

gardenscout,

I completely understand your concerns. Like you, I originally grew whatever hybrid tomatoes my local garden center happened to offer. I think my first year I grew Celebrity, Early Girl(?) and Viva Italia romas. They tasted just like the ones I always bought in the grocery store so I thought, hey - this is easy!

But then, I started cruising around garden websites and discovered a tomato forum where the people grew these things called 'heirlooms'. These people referred to tomatoes by name (which I found very surprising at the time) and swore up and down that heirloom varieties tasted far superior to grocery store tomatoes. While I was still reeling over that revelation, I discovered that tomatoes aren't all red.

The next season, I planted 8 or 10 of the heirloom varieties I'd seen mentioned most often. I didn't grow any hybrids at all that year...just jumped in with both feet. Thankfully, the heirlooms seemed to play by the same general rules as the hybrids and they thrived despite my inexperience. The plants were significantly larger than the I was used to but frankly, that seemed like a good sign.

Some of the varieties I chose pumped out as many or more tomatoes as my hybrids ever had. Some produced less but were much tastier. That very first year was a really fun experiment and I came out of it with a favorite, 'must grow' tomato variety. The others were good, but this one was a total standout. So, the next year, I grew my favorite again and tried a few new (to me) heirlooms. Once again, I found a few new 'must grows' that will be a fixture in my garden every year.

I can honestly say that I didn't do anything different or special when I started growing heirlooms. I don't think it's necessary to pamper the plants or treat them gingerly at all. I really think you'll be pleasantly surprised this year.

Of the varieties you listed, I've grown:

Cherokee Purple
Kellogg's Breakfast
Eva Purple Ball
Sungold

I grew Cherokee Purple during my first 'experimental' year. That plant thrived despite my clumsy efforts, I guaranty that. Its stake wasn't fastened down well and the whole plant blew over during a nasty thunderstorm. I thought it was a goner for sure but it never even missed a beat. We fixed the stake, picked the plant back up and it kept right on pumping out tomatoes. Kellogg's Breakfast and Eva Purple Ball made it through a really violent hail storm last summer. Again - I was sure they were done for but they recovered. I may have been lucky there, but clearly these plants aren't always as fragile as they might seem.

Just have fun with your heirloom trials, visit Tville often and don't ever be afraid to pop in with questions. I've asked my fair share of..."Is this normal?" questions and no one has ever made me feel like a dummy. Oh - and if you find yourself prowling through the garden 3 or 4 times a day excitedly checking your plants for flower buds or ripening tomatoes...yes, that's normal.

[bugsy]

so pooklette what was the favorite "must grow" variety from that first year? inquiring (nosy) minds wanna know.

[Mischka]

Originally Posted by gardenscout

Which brings me to the whole phobia thing. I am scared that these heirlooms are all going to get diseases, or are not going produce well, or they are going to give me problems that I don't know how to solve. Hybrids are, I guess, designed to be easier, and I am afraid I am getting in over my head by trying to grow the real thing.

What have I gotten myself into?

Gardenscout,

I am very close in distance to where you live; less than a 20 minute ride.

I start my seedlings next week and I do not transplant outdoors until Memorial Day weekend. This year I have 72 tomato varieties on schedule to grow, with a total of about 1000 plants in two growing areas here. I will also grow an additional 200 plants at a farm that a childhood friend of mine owns.

With the exception of Sungold, Big Beef (for my stubborn uncle) Moreton, Brandy Boy and some of the dwarf project F3 growouts, the remainder are all OP/heirloom types.

Here's some of the secrets to my success...not actually secrets at all.

1. I use black poly mulch. It conserves soil moisture, blocks weeds and most importantly, keeps soilborne diseases from being splashed up onto my plants via rain.

2. I plant my seedlings deeply; up to the first bottom set of leaves. This allows the plant to establish a better root system. More roots = healthier plant, overall.

3. I foliar feed my plants weekly by spraying the undersides with a seaweed-derived fertilizer. I use Seacom PGR from Saltwater Farms. I tried Ohrstrom's Maxicrop last year and found that the granular version tended to clog my backpack sprayer, no matter how long I mixed it in the barrel beforehand. I do this in the early morning so that the foliage dries out during the daylight hours.

4. I spray weekly with Daconil - religiously. Daconil is a preventative for fungal diseases, not a cure. It doesn't/cannot "kill" fungal spores, it prevents them from attaching themselves to the plant's leaves and colonizing them.

5. I water via soaker hoses and NOT by sprinklers. This greatly helps reduce disease transmission. (The farm uses perforated irrigation pipe which also serves the same purpose) I am careful not to overwater, too. I wait until the plants "tell" me that they are thirsty by slightly drooping.

6. I immediately pull plants that show any signs of disease. You cannot become sentimental over a tomato plant. Yank it out (without brushing it against any surrounding plants) and bag it for disposal. Don't put it in the compost pile.

If you should lose any of your seedlings, I would be happy to give you as many as you need, free of charge.

[miniedmo]

I agree with Bugsy you can't just leave us hanging like that!!

[garnetmoth]

feldon30- great post!

I got into gardening when my gardener mother died a few years ago. I never grew 100% hybrids (except cherries!), so im not really sure about the productivity for myself.

If you need to be kept in BLTs all summer, you can always plant a few of your favorite hybrid alongside your new found friends.

Ive definately had some disappointments, yellow pear were BORING! but delights like Brandywine and CP are hard to beat.

Im in a new climate (moved to TN from OH) and it got way too hot way too quick last year. Were re-raising our raised beds, and installing the drip irrigation from GO this year.

good luck and happy growing!

[lumierefrere]

They're heirlooms because they survived all those years. Golden Queen was introduced in 1882. Darwin? Survival of the fittest?

[gardenmaniac]

Great posts guys! It's good to see the lurkers are coming out too and lending their valuable advice.

A couple of weeks ago, my mother came to visit from Illinois and was rolling her eyes at me whenever I mentioned the word "heirloom". I find this amusing since she adores Cherokee Purple and complains all the time that store tomatoes have no taste. She grew up on a farm and knows what a good tomato tastes like. Anyway, when I got home yesterday there was this pathetic message on my answering machine with my mother sounding forlorn asking me if I could maybe send her some of those heirloom tomato seeds I was talking about when she was at my house. Then she said, “I don’t know if I can actually grow them from seed- I’ve never done that before …” in that same pitiful voice. My mother is a very strong willed woman. She NEVER sounds pitiful. What is an heirloom obsessed daughter to do? Find out how many plants she wants, send her some seeds, and then seed them here so I can mail them to her at transplanting time!

She is not what you would call a vegetable gardener and had great success with Cherokee Purple. If she can grow them, you certainly can!

Tiffanie

[Tomstrees]

Only thing that "scares" me is I'm probably not going to be able to grow out all 12,000+ heirloom varieites !!! What am I gonna do ??? lol ~

In all seriousness, I used to only grow hybrids.
Then I accidently bought a yellow pear seedling.

Now my garden gets filled with more and more heirlooms every year ...
Last year out of 25 plants - I only grew 1 hybrid: BrandyBoy , and it was a total flop ...

Grow for it ! Grow a garden full of heirlooms !!!

~ Tom

[pooklette]

Sorry to leave you guys hanging like that!

My first year growing heirlooms taught me that I tend to prefer tomatoes that lean toward the sweet and/or rich side. I wasn't a big fan of fresh tomatoes until I got to sample that wide heirloom flavor palette. After that, it was like, "Well, no wonder I didn't like the other ones..."

My favorite variety that first year was Big Rainbow, believe it or not. You don't hear many comments about it but in my neck of the woods, it is quite sweet/fruity flavored and very large. These results might vary depending on soil, growing conditions, etc. but here it was a real standout.

My favs the second year were Kellogg's Breakfast, Brandywine Sudduth's and Sungold. I know Sungold is a hybrid but my taste buds say it's a darned good one that I want in my garden every year.

I will be trying a few of my 'firsts' again because they're so highly rated here (and elsewhere) but I thought they were just OK. Maybe I harvested them a little too early or maybe my tastes are just different. Dunno, but either way it'll be worth the effort to find out.