Another Rebel Yell RL Surprise?

wxcrawler · February 17, 2018

Hi everyone,

I know this has been brought up in the past. I ordered some new seeds for Rebel Yell from Heritage Seed Market late in 2017. I germinated 3 of the seeds on February 2. All 3 seeds I planted came up at roughly the same time 3-4 days later. They've been growing well. Wouldn't you know it that one of my 3 plants is Regular Leaf? I have 16 different varieties started, so I hadn't looked at them real closely when the 3 plants were in their starting cup together. I was transplanting them tonight to their own container and got my first good look. My first thought was "what the ....?". Then I remembered the post here about Rebel Yell RL last Fall. I know for certain it was not a stray seed from me. Rebel Yell was the first seeds I planted on the 2nd. I didn't have any other seed packages open when the Rebel Yell seeds went into the soil. I guess it could have been a stray seed in the package from Heritage. The three seeds looked the same when I planted them. I know that doesn't mean a lot, but wanted to throw it out there. I don't really know what to think.

I've never grown Rebel Yell and am really looking forward to it. My plan was to only keep one of the plants and give two away to friends. I have a small backyard garden in Tulsa, and only grow a few plants. Now I feel like I've got to grow out the PL and the RL to compare them.

I don't really have a question, but any input anyone has is welcome. I just wanted to make the post because I was shocked when I saw it. I remembered the post about it from last Fall, and wanted to add my new experience.

Lee

Nan_PA_6b · February 17, 2018

Hi Lee,

You bought or traded for Rebel Yell. One of your plants is likely not Rebel Yell. Your space is limited.

Do you have the space to grow out an unknown plant? Do you want to spend your time and resources on an unknown plant? You are under no obligation to plant the PL one.

My space is limited, too. I plan long & hard to figure out each tomato that goes in the garden. If it were me I wouldn't let an unknown, unplanned plant in.

On the other hand, if curiosity is getting the best of you, you like surprises, you think it will add to the general knowledge, or if it just sounds like fun, go for it!

Nan

wxcrawler · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b

Hi Lee,

You bought or traded for Rebel Yell. One of your plants is likely not Rebel Yell. Your space is limited.

Do you have the space to grow out an unknown plant? Do you want to spend your time and resources on an unknown plant? You are under no obligation to plant the PL one.

My space is limited, too. I plan long & hard to figure out each tomato that goes in the garden. If it were me I wouldn't let an unknown, unplanned plant in.

On the other hand, if curiosity is getting the best of you, you like surprises, you think it will add to the general knowledge, or if it just sounds like fun, go for it!

Nan

I bought the seeds from Heritage Seed Market online. I am already looking over my plans to see how I could get another plant in. I know I can, because I had planned to scale down this year. Last year I had 27 plants. This year, the plan was 16. Growing one more plant can't hurt, right? That's what I keep asking myself. Curiosity already has the best of me.

Lee

Nan_PA_6b · February 17, 2018

Get out the shoe horn, then, & fit that little sucker in! At 17 plants, you've still scaled back admirably. It's always interesting for us to hear how the nonstandard plants turn out.

Nan

ginger2778 · February 17, 2018

It's very likely a stray seed from Heritage. A PL plant has no genetics in it to produce a RL. Agree it isn't Rebel Yell most likely. Now Carolyn will come by and say it's a mutation, but the more reasonable thinking is heritage got a stray in there.

wxcrawler · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger2778

It's very likely a stray seed from Heritage. A PL plant has no genetics in it to produce a RL. Agree it isn't Rebel Yell most likely. Now Carolyn will come by and say it's a mutation, but the more reasonable thinking is heritage got a stray in there.

Thanks Marsha. I'm going to grow it out to see what I get. Hopefully it'll be good. Since I have no idea what it is, I'll call it Not Rebel Yell if I decide to save seed.

Lee

ginger2778 · February 17, 2018

If you want some RY seeds from me, my seed for SASE offer has them free for the stamp , all mine have grown PL. Great tasting tomato.

Patihum · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by wxcrawler

Hi everyone,

I know this has been brought up in the past. I ordered some new seeds for Rebel Yell from Heritage Seed Market late in 2017. I germinated 3 of the seeds on February 2. All 3 seeds I planted came up at roughly the same time 3-4 days later. They've been growing well. Wouldn't you know it that one of my 3 plants is Regular Leaf? I have 16 different varieties started, so I hadn't looked at them real closely when the 3 plants were in their starting cup together. I was transplanting them tonight to their own container and got my first good look. My first thought was "what the ....?". Then I remembered the post here about Rebel Yell RL last Fall. I know for certain it was not a stray seed from me. Rebel Yell was the first seeds I planted on the 2nd. I didn't have any other seed packages open when the Rebel Yell seeds went into the soil. I guess it could have been a stray seed in the package from Heritage. The three seeds looked the same when I planted them. I know that doesn't mean a lot, but wanted to throw it out there. I don't really know what to think.

I've never grown Rebel Yell and am really looking forward to it. My plan was to only keep one of the plants and give two away to friends. I have a small backyard garden in Tulsa, and only grow a few plants. Now I feel like I've got to grow out the PL and the RL to compare them.

I don't really have a question, but any input anyone has is welcome. I just wanted to make the post because I was shocked when I saw it. I remembered the post about it from last Fall, and wanted to add my new experience.

Lee

You really should contact Heritage Seed Market at mailto:heritageseedmarket@gmail.com so that the vendor for Rebel Yell which is Muddy Bucket Farm can offer compensation/refund or replacement.

The vendor needs to know when a situation like this arises because if there's more than one report on the same variety the vendor will want to investigate further and take action. Telling everyone EXCEPT the vendor does not help to fix the situation.

KarenO · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by wxcrawler

Thanks Marsha. I'm going to grow it out to see what I get. Hopefully it'll be good. Since I have no idea what it is, I'll call it Not Rebel Yell if I decide to save seed.

Lee

Oh don’t.
It will already be a named tomato just in the wrong envelope.
Not a fan of this “ not whatever” trend.
KarenO

Fred Hempel · February 17, 2018

It is a very confusing trend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

Oh don’t.
It will already be a named tomato just in the wrong envelope.
Not a fan of this “ not whatever” trend.
KarenO

Fred Hempel · February 17, 2018

It is exciting (or maddening) to get an "off-type" in a seed packet.

I agree with Patihum: Tell the vendor, or often the seed trader.

After telling the vendor or seed trader (so they can assess whether or not that seed-lot is problematic) I would then suggest the following.

1. Either throw the offending plant away, or save it out of curiosity.

2. If you save it out of curiosity, wait until the end of the season to decide whether it is potentially a plant that is worthy of further discussion (is it boringly mediocre, or a true star in your garden?)

3. If it is worthy of further discussion, grow it until it breeds true (often up to 7 generations).

4. If it breeds true, and is still exciting, grow it out with all similar varieties to see how it compares. It might be the spittin image of one (indicating you have been growing a known variety). It might be something novel.

5. If it is something novel, decide if it you would grow it, instead of the similar varieties you compared it with.

6. If it is something that you would grow instead of others, in a particular niche of tomatoes, THEN it is your duty to report it to us!!

Yes. I am suggesting that alot of the "not tomato X" threads aren't that useful.

I am suggesting this, as someone who has encountered hundreds, if not thousands, of unexpected variants when growing my own seed, or seed from others (vendors and traders).

Sometimes the unexpected variant is a diamond in the rough. Mostly the variant is just a bit of boring noise in the system.

ginger2778 · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patihum

You really should contact Heritage Seed Market at mailto:heritageseedmarket@gmail.com so that the vendor for Rebel Yell which is Muddy Bucket Farm can offer compensation/refund or replacement.

The vendor needs to know when a situation like this arises because if there's more than one report on the same variety the vendor will want to investigate further and take action. Telling everyone EXCEPT the vendor does not help to fix the situation.

I agree.

wxcrawler · February 17, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

Oh don’t.
It will already be a named tomato just in the wrong envelope.
Not a fan of this “ not whatever” trend.
KarenO

Karen,

I would only keep the seeds for myself if I end up liking whatever it is. I wouldn't ever let those seeds go anywhere else, since I don't know what they are. It would just be a name for me to remember what they are (or aren't).

Lee

wxcrawler · February 17, 2018

I did contact Heritage by email this morning. They responded very quickly, which I greatly appreciated. They are going to test plant one of their full packets of Rebel Yell to see if they get any RL. If they do, they'll pull them from their seed list. I think that's a good course of action. They agreed with everyone else that it was likely a stray, although it is possible a single fruit cross got in their seed.

Although I didn't ask for or expected a refund (it's actually kind of exciting), Heritage offered me a refund or 2 other seed packets. That's more than fair to me, and I'll likely take them up on the offer of different seeds. I'm always looking for new varieties to try.

Thanks everyone for your comments!

Lee

AKmark · February 22, 2018

I have grown RY a few seasons and have never got any RL.

February 17, 2018	#1
wxcrawler Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 115	Another Rebel Yell RL Surprise? Hi everyone, I know this has been brought up in the past. I ordered some new seeds for Rebel Yell from Heritage Seed Market late in 2017. I germinated 3 of the seeds on February 2. All 3 seeds I planted came up at roughly the same time 3-4 days later. They've been growing well. Wouldn't you know it that one of my 3 plants is Regular Leaf? I have 16 different varieties started, so I hadn't looked at them real closely when the 3 plants were in their starting cup together. I was transplanting them tonight to their own container and got my first good look. My first thought was "what the ....?". Then I remembered the post here about Rebel Yell RL last Fall. I know for certain it was not a stray seed from me. Rebel Yell was the first seeds I planted on the 2nd. I didn't have any other seed packages open when the Rebel Yell seeds went into the soil. I guess it could have been a stray seed in the package from Heritage. The three seeds looked the same when I planted them. I know that doesn't mean a lot, but wanted to throw it out there. I don't really know what to think. I've never grown Rebel Yell and am really looking forward to it. My plan was to only keep one of the plants and give two away to friends. I have a small backyard garden in Tulsa, and only grow a few plants. Now I feel like I've got to grow out the PL and the RL to compare them. I don't really have a question, but any input anyone has is welcome. I just wanted to make the post because I was shocked when I saw it. I remembered the post about it from last Fall, and wanted to add my new experience. Lee

February 17, 2018	#2
Nan_PA_6b Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 3,194	Hi Lee, You bought or traded for Rebel Yell. One of your plants is likely not Rebel Yell. Your space is limited. Do you have the space to grow out an unknown plant? Do you want to spend your time and resources on an unknown plant? You are under no obligation to plant the PL one. My space is limited, too. I plan long & hard to figure out each tomato that goes in the garden. If it were me I wouldn't let an unknown, unplanned plant in. On the other hand, if curiosity is getting the best of you, you like surprises, you think it will add to the general knowledge, or if it just sounds like fun, go for it! Nan

February 17, 2018	#5
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	It's very likely a stray seed from Heritage. A PL plant has no genetics in it to produce a RL. Agree it isn't Rebel Yell most likely. Now Carolyn will come by and say it's a mutation, but the more reasonable thinking is heritage got a stray in there.

February 17, 2018	#11
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	It is exciting (or maddening) to get an "off-type" in a seed packet. I agree with Patihum: Tell the vendor, or often the seed trader. After telling the vendor or seed trader (so they can assess whether or not that seed-lot is problematic) I would then suggest the following. 1. Either throw the offending plant away, or save it out of curiosity. 2. If you save it out of curiosity, wait until the end of the season to decide whether it is potentially a plant that is worthy of further discussion (is it boringly mediocre, or a true star in your garden?) 3. If it is worthy of further discussion, grow it until it breeds true (often up to 7 generations). 4. If it breeds true, and is still exciting, grow it out with all similar varieties to see how it compares. It might be the spittin image of one (indicating you have been growing a known variety). It might be something novel. 5. If it is something novel, decide if it you would grow it, instead of the similar varieties you compared it with. 6. If it is something that you would grow instead of others, in a particular niche of tomatoes, THEN it is your duty to report it to us!! Yes. I am suggesting that alot of the "not tomato X" threads aren't that useful. I am suggesting this, as someone who has encountered hundreds, if not thousands, of unexpected variants when growing my own seed, or seed from others (vendors and traders). Sometimes the unexpected variant is a diamond in the rough. Mostly the variant is just a bit of boring noise in the system.

February 22, 2018	#15
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	I have grown RY a few seasons and have never got any RL.