How deep is TOO deep & root bound plants?

[My Foot Smells]

Like most, I had to hold off planting d/t bizarre weather and late frost. I did not pot up and kept in a 20 oz solo cup (which are terrible, btw) and had plants with a stalk about pencil thick and 3 ft tall & a touch of frost bite despite being in the GH.

I planted out 12 yesterday, and plugged them about 18" deep, but had room to go deeper. I broke up the root cluster, which weren't too badly bound. I trimmed them all the way up the top leaves and cut off a few flowers.

How deep is too deep?

I bought some peppers in a six pack about 6 weeks ago and didn't not pot them up (thinking I would stick them in the ground sooner rather than later). These are a solid root plug now, and thinking maybe best to toss them (6 for 1$) as opposed to planting.

The time has FINALLY arrived to clean things up, and plant out. It feels so GOOD after an unusually long wait.

[mobiledynamics]

It's a 2-fold approach. 18 seems plenty....leave the top with leaves to make food. By the time as you progress, IMO, the roots would be bigger + your leaves are still making food from the sun

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

It's a 2-fold approach. 18 seems plenty....leave the top with leaves to make food. By the time as you progress, IMO, the roots would be bigger + your leaves are still making food from the sun

Had I used a wider bucket, I could have had a root ball the size of a bowling ball instead of a cylindrical solo cup.

Me thinks, the problem with going as deep as you can, the soil would still be a tad bit cool - but probably wouldn't have to water until July - if at all (depending of course).

[Nan_PA_6b]

You can trench them, to get more plant covered up without going deep. When we have a very rootbound pot, we cut into the rootball maybe 1/4-1/2" just to make sure the outer roots don't prevent outward root growth. One slice down one side of the root ball and up the other. Like cutting it in half but only going 1/2" deep.

Nan

[zipcode]

18 inch would be what I call too deep. Until new roots will form at the surface I'm not sure that plant will do much.

[mobiledynamics]

Sorry. Mis-read your 1st post. I thought I read container.

The general consensus is that the top 5 inches is the ~sweet spot~ on soil.....and warmer too. So planting 18 is too deep. Do the trench style as Nan Suggest. Just remember that you trenched it moving forward so you don't cut it with a shovel...

[Cole_Robbie]

Part of the answer about depth relates to the depth of your topsoil, which is a different number for all of us. Tomato roots won't grow in sub-soil, or at least mine. The clay is too dense.

The peppers are ok, I'd guess, unless they have turned yellow.

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

Sorry. Mis-read your 1st post. I thought I read container.

The general consensus is that the top 5 inches is the ~sweet spot~ on soil.....and warmer too. So planting 18 is too deep. Do the trench style as Nan Suggest. Just remember that you trenched it moving forward so you don't cut it with a shovel...

To clarify, these plants are in a 22" raised bed, not container. I have never had much success with tom's in tainers - limited production.

All you ever hear, is plant tomatoes "Deep, deep, deep" and some sources site 2' is best. I usually don't have the opportunity to plant that deep, as my transplants are only 12" tall - but THIS year I had to keep them in protection d/t frost warnings, so they are big enuff to plant them on the bottom of the bed where it meets the clay soil.

Guess I could trench them, or plant at an angle. But they are pretty rigid, so 90 degree probably would not work.

Thanks for the rootball reply, I will cut the pepper roots prior to planting. I meant to be "further along" but work all week and then the weekend weather has been brutal - cold, rainy, windy....... and also trying to finish up building a chicken condo project.

[habitat_gardener]

[QUOTE=My Foot Smells;696728]...Guess I could trench them, or plant at an angle. But they are pretty rigid, so 90 degree probably would not work ....[/QUOTE=My Foot Smells;696728]

When they are planted in a trench, all you need is to make a ramp up to soil level. The above- ground part can be at a 30 degree angle to the soil surface. You don’t need to bend the stem 90 degrees. The stem responds to gravity and will become vertical as it grows.

[My Foot Smells]

[QUOTE=habitat_gardener;696756]

Originally Posted by My Foot Smells

...Guess I could trench them, or plant at an angle. But they are pretty rigid, so 90 degree probably would not work ....[/QUOTE=My Foot Smells;696728]

When they are planted in a trench, all you need is to make a ramp up to soil level. The above- ground part can be at a 30 degree angle to the soil surface. You don’t need to bend the stem 90 degrees. The stem responds to gravity and will become vertical as it grows.

Good point as these plants are stiff, but should be better equipped to handle the wind load at current size. I've got 12 down, but 8 more to go (6 big, 2 cherry). Maybe i'll try a little geometry with the next batch for compare.

Cole, I got the heavy clay too that is soft and gummy right now, but you can bounce a golf ball of the surface in the summertime. Looks like a topography of Minnesota (land of lakes) after a rain - thus the raised bed approach. I started off years ago with a runt sized raised bed, which was plum pitiful. Then went into full bucket head mode - but tomatoes performed poorly. I've got some 12" raised too for the peppers, but the Bermuda can hurdle w/o effort. The 22" beds don't get ate up too bad, except for one that has succumbed to a nut grass invasion.

[b54red]

Eighteen inches is way too deep. Sorry but you are only delaying the plants growing by planting that deep. You may even lose a few to damping off along the buried stem. At the end of the season dig up your original root ball and you will probably find few new roots coming out of it and little growth if any from the original roots. Most of your root growth will be just below the soil for a few inches. I experimented with deep planting years ago when we were undergoing drought conditions and the results were not promising. I was delayed by almost a full month due to late spring frosts and by the time the weather cooperated my plants were all in excess of two feet and some as tall as three feet in little 12 oz. cups. Like you my plants were stiff and with long tough stems. I planted 15 to 20 very deep like you. I planted another 15 or 20 with the trenching method and another 15 or 20 I just broke up the root ball and planted them just below the surface. Of the three methods I got similar production with the last two methods though it took some good support on the shallow planted ones because they were so tall and skinny to start with. I lost some plants to damping off that were trenched but lost half my plants that were planted deep to damping off along the buried stem. When the season was over I dug up the roots and was surprised to find almost no new roots coming from the lower foot of stem and the original root ball in the deep planted ones. Even the trenched plants had the bulk of new root growth near the point where the stem left the ground but still I did get new root growth all along the buried stem and from the original root ball, just not as much as I would have thought.

Surprisingly I had similar results with both the trenching and shallow planting. The reason I was surprised was how quickly the shallow planted seedlings looked normal in a few weeks. I also found that as the season progressed and I planted out later in the summer that I had a much higher success rate when planting in the intense heat of May, June and July that the shallow planted ones did better in surviving the plant out as damping off increased on the trenched and deep planted seedlings as the weather got hotter. I found that a heavy layer of mulch also increased success with planting out in the hotter months.

Bill

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by b54red

Eighteen inches is way too deep. Sorry but you are only delaying the plants growing by planting that deep. You may even lose a few to damping off along the buried stem. At the end of the season dig up your original root ball and you will probably find few new roots coming out of it and little growth if any from the original roots. Most of your root growth will be just below the soil for a few inches. I experimented with deep planting years ago when we were undergoing drought conditions and the results were not promising. I was delayed by almost a full month due to late spring frosts and by the time the weather cooperated my plants were all in excess of two feet and some as tall as three feet in little 12 oz. cups. Like you my plants were stiff and with long tough stems. I planted 15 to 20 very deep like you. I planted another 15 or 20 with the trenching method and another 15 or 20 I just broke up the root ball and planted them just below the surface. Of the three methods I got similar production with the last two methods though it took some good support on the shallow planted ones because they were so tall and skinny to start with. I lost some plants to damping off that were trenched but lost half my plants that were planted deep to damping off along the buried stem. When the season was over I dug up the roots and was surprised to find almost no new roots coming from the lower foot of stem and the original root ball in the deep planted ones. Even the trenched plants had the bulk of new root growth near the point where the stem left the ground but still I did get new root growth all along the buried stem and from the original root ball, just not as much as I would have thought.

Surprisingly I had similar results with both the trenching and shallow planting. The reason I was surprised was how quickly the shallow planted seedlings looked normal in a few weeks. I also found that as the season progressed and I planted out later in the summer that I had a much higher success rate when planting in the intense heat of May, June and July that the shallow planted ones did better in surviving the plant out as damping off increased on the trenched and deep planted seedlings as the weather got hotter. I found that a heavy layer of mulch also increased success with planting out in the hotter months.

Bill

Great read and testimony, thank you Bill. Exactly my current situation. I did do some online research prior to posting this thread and there was not any information on how deep to plant a tomato - just "deep, deep, deep" which is not really helpful.

I would think there would be strong clinical evidence on this. I always chop up the dirt real fine for the planting hole, so probably just "tug" them up w/o to much difficulty.

[mobiledynamics]

For discussion sake, the soil should be warmer in raised bed than in ground dirt....which is a bonus

Bearing Post #11, I err on not that deep when in ground, but for containers, my current transplants are now in 1G containers. I don't mind the slighter larger deeper rootball for containers. Still not 18 inches deep though. I grow in fabric containers though and my mix is pretty airy - so it sorta breathes more 360 per se.

I would say how deep depends on pot medium if the the pot/environment of the medium

[My Foot Smells]

Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

For discussion sake, the soil should be warmer in raised bed than in ground dirt....which is a bonus

Bearing Post #11, I err on not that deep when in ground, but for containers, my current transplants are now in 1G containers. I don't mind the slighter larger deeper rootball for containers. Still not 18 inches deep though. I grow in fabric containers though and my mix is pretty airy - so it sorta breathes more 360 per se.

I would say how deep depends on pot medium if the the pot/environment of the medium

also, the hole was 18" deep w/ a little backfill, say 2" & the rootball was about 8" tall. so the top of the rootball is realistically probably 8" below top dirt level (give or take +1-2").

so is the thing now buried 8" below deck, or still 18"? the hole was 18", but I would have to have dug 26" to get the top of the rootball to 18"

can't believe there is not a field study done on this. figure someone would flop an article in here.

the bed in contrived of a sand compost mix that drains very well......... & the top 6" gets warm come summer.

......so on the trench method........

the rootball width is about 5" wide (unteased)? so maybe dig a trench 12" deep? or more shallow.

[Nan_PA_6b]

You can dig individual trenches 8" deep at one end, 18" long, tapering to nothing at the other end. Lay the plant in with the root ball at the deep end. There will be 3" of soil covering the 5" wide root ball. Since the trench tapers to nothing, the tops will be above the trench. You don't have to bend the stem. Fill in the trench.

Or for multiple plants, make one big trench, 18" wide, 8" deep at one side, tapering to nothing at the other side, and very long. Lay the plants in perpendicular to the trench, root ball at the 8" deep side, top part on the shallow side. Lay them every 2' or however much distance you put between plants. Then shovel soil over them.

The tops will turn upward on their own.

Clear as mud?

Nan