Spudleaf population explosion

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Here are the final list of varieties of my growouts for 2006
There are some RL varieties that are being used for crosses but most are PL

POSSIBLE BLACK HEART RL
FLAT HEAD MONSTER PL
BLACK FROM TULA PL
LARGE PINK BULGARIAN F5 PL
RUSSIAN 117 PL
SALMON'S PL
HESHPOLE F5 PL
GERMAN RED STRAWBERRY RL
PURPLE RUSSIAN RL
BEDUIN PL
NOIRE DE COSEBOEUF RL
PURPLE RIDER PL
ROBSON ANGOLAN RL
SHUNTUKSKI VELIKAN RL
BLACK RUSSIAN RL
BLACK POTATO LEAF PL
PURPLE PERFECT X PURPLE PRICE PL
PURPLE POTATO LEAF PL
OS-OH-PE-L PL
AMISH OLD RED PL
BILDER PL
GIUSEPPI'S BIG BOY PL
GLACIER PL
GERMAN PINK PL
GOOD PL
GRACEFUL PL
HARRY SPUDLEAF PL
ITALIAN PURPLE PL
JEFF DAVIS PL
JOHN VESTA PL
KARTOFEL NYI PL
KENTUCKY POTATO LEAF PL
MADBURY PL
MEXICAN 39 PL
MEXICO PL
MCKINLEY PL

MIKADO VIOLEHROTT PL
NADJA PL
OLIVE HILL PL
POTATO LEAF YELLOW PL
PI 205039 PL
PALE PURFECT PURPLE PL
PINK POTATO TOP PL
POLISH PL
POLISH PINK PL
PRUDENCE PURPLE PL
POTATO LEAF PL
POLISH POTATO LEAF PL
RED HOUSE FREE STANDING PL
ROCKINGHAM PL
SOUTHERN NIGHT PL
STUMP OF THE WORLD PL
STEVE PL
SUGAR BEEFSTEAK PL
TABLE TOP PL
WHITE PL
WEST VIRGINIA STRAW PL
SPARK'S YELLOW PL
GALINAS PL
MILZANI RL
SCHWARZE TOMATE RL
PAUL ROBESON RL
BLACK PRINCE RL
NEGER TOMATE RL
INDISCHE LILA RL
NOIRE CHARBONNEUX RL
OSHENHERZ RL
MANALUCIE PL
CABALLO RED PL
MYSTERY PL GREEN PL
EVERGREEN PL
VALENA PINK
BLACK BRANDYWINE PL
BROADLEAF PL
CANADA PURPLE PL
CZECHSLOVAKIAN PL
DWARF RECESSIVE PL
EARLY TRIUMPH PL
GENUINE ITALIAN POTATO LEAF
GERMAN PINK PL
GOOD PL
GRANDPA CHARLIE PL
GRANDPA WILLIE PL
GRANDFATHER ASHLOCK PL
JAGGED LEAF PL
KORAL PL
KIMBERLY PL
LUCKY CROSS PL
LITTLE LUCKY PL
HENRY FIELD'S POTATO LEAF PL
ELBE PL
CRAIG'S POTATO LEAF PL
PURPLE PRICE PL
RUBY SPORT PL
THROWBACK POTATO LEAF PLUM PL
JAPANESE TREFILE BLACK PL
LILLIAN'S YELLOW HEIRLOOM PL

LITTLE LUCKY HEART PL
YELLOW SUBMARINE PL
OTV BRANDYWINE (BOGEYVINE)
MARIANNA'S PEACE PL
MANALUCIE PL

jerseyjohn61 · February 25, 2006

Willie, I envy both your list and your
Growing area....JJ61

jerseyjohn61 · February 25, 2006

What is "OTV Bogeyvine"?.... A possible strain?
Please clarify. Thanks....JJ61

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Jersey John,
I moved west from Doylestown, PA in 1985.
I've been growing tomatoes for 50+years, but tomato growing is a whole new ballgame here in the desert southwest. All my growing is in containers from 2 to 26 gallons, all drip irrigated and mulched with 2-3 inches of crushed pecan shells.

OTV (Bogeyvine) is a strain of OTV Brandywine developed by Steve Strickler of Dayton, OH. It is in all respects alike as OTV but has been selected for larger and more numerous fruit.
Spud

jerseyjohn61 · February 25, 2006

Willie, I still envy your list, but not your sunscald and
watering needs. Do you believe the PL aids in sun
protection?
And thanks for the OTV info as I'm giving original
OTV a maiden run this season. All the best sir....JJ61

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Jersey John,
There are varying degrees of foilage cover in PL varieties, some dense like Magnus which gives good sunscald protection, and some Like Stupice with sparse foilage that needs partial shade out here.
Spud

Grub · February 25, 2006

Where's Grub's Mystery Green PL ? Plenty of spudleaves to keep you busy there, that's for sure

Enjoy.

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Jersey John,

Its there between Caballo Red and Evergreen. Sorry Sir Grub for not giving you credit in the name, its OK in the database.
CABALLO RED PL
MYSTERY PL GREEN PL
EVERGREEN PL

Spud

Fusion_power · February 25, 2006

SHhhhh...

Don't anyone tell Spudleaf that he has a dentate tomato leaf for his photo.

Fusion

Grub · February 25, 2006

Gotcha Spud.

I have a new one for you, too.

Grub's Mystery small-fruited red PL that has reared it's head twice now. Good taste, very few seeds, I'd swear it was Kimberly. But there are a few mini beefs among them, which Kimberly doesn't have

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Fusion,
The pic is courtesy of the TGRC archives, so marked, and was the only one showing the c gene that was within the 100 x 100 pixel guidelines for avitars on T'ville. Here is the web addy for the pic: http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/images/thumb...ers,leaves.jpg

A new pic for my avitar, taken with my new Olympus EVOLT 500 - 8 megapixel digital camera, is scheduled for sometime in late May probably of my Grandpa Charlie PL family heirloom. I will have pixel sizing capability with the Photoshop software.
arriving with the new camera.
Regards,
Bill

**nctomatoman** · February 25, 2006

A few comments on the list, Bill -

BLACK FROM TULA PL - since B from T is a reg leaf variety, if this ends up being stable (not only leaf form but in fruit description), needs renaming to avoid confusion....
LARGE PINK BULGARIAN F5 PL - ditto
RUSSIAN 117 PL - ditto
JOHN VESTA PL - this ia AKA Glesener (after John and Vesta Glesener) - been in the SSE collection for many years, very similar to Brandywine
ROCKINGHAM PL - this is a reasonably recent OP developed in New Hampshire of all places (1940s or 1950s), a medium sized red (hence unusual, as red PLs are relatively rare)
SOUTHERN NIGHT PL- unusual in being a Determinate potato leaf (not Dwarf/Tree type, but just compact and short growing)
SPARK'S YELLOW PL - this was sent to me by Don Sparks as simply "Yellow" - I added the Sparks to the name and listed it in the SSE to give it a bit of definition. Very similar to Yellow Brandywine and Potato Leaf Yellow
MANALUCIE PL - this showed up in a sample of Manalucie sent to me by SSE member Norbert Rahm - Manalucie is a RL tomato, so if this one ends up reproducible, it needs a new name.
EVERGREEN PL - where did this one come from! Again, if it ends up stable, needs new name.
DWARF RECESSIVE PL - Very unusual in being the ONLY Dwarf, true potato leaf (not just rugose reg leaf) variety I've seen. Would be great breeding material, since the tomatoes from this are unimpressive (medium sized pink seedy bland things) - I got this one out of the USDA.
JAGGED LEAF PL - when I got this out of the USDA, there were two distinctive leaf forms - one true potato leaf, one slightly different but hard to explain. I grew one of each but have not returned to them to see if they are reproducibly different.
CRAIG'S POTATO LEAF PL - this is actually a potato leaf form of Bisignano #2 that appeared in my garden - my friend Jeff Fleming gave it the new name and listed it in the SSE.
OTV BRANDYWINE (BOGEYVINE) not heard of this before - if a distinct selection, and reproducible/stable, should have a distinct name.

Interesting list - one concern I have is that if the same names are being used for both PL and RL "versions" of a variety (and that in itself is a problem, since my view is that the leaf form switch is indicative of a cross or mix up), we will just build the confusion that already exists! yes, I know....I am picky about this stuff.

bully · February 25, 2006

Hello Spud,

You have a wonderful list, I too am a big fan of the potato leaf varieties.

I had an interesting plant develop from stick seeds I got from Rosco....not sure it would qualify as a potato leaf or not. Out of the stem of the plants grow these branches if you will, and at the end of each branch is a large paddle shaped leaf. (I can hear the 'twilight zone' music in my head as I type this)

I saved seeds if you're interested give me a shout.
Bully

**carolyn137** · February 25, 2006

I echo Craig's concern about what the PL versions of some of the original RL varieties actually are as well.

Keith and I have been talking for yea, years, about the various mechanisms that can operate in getting an RL to a PL, simply by mutation.

And as Craig has said, most of the PL's turn up as the result of a cross.

One example is Cherokee Purple Potato Leaf found by Jere Gettle and listed in the SSE Yearbook. Folks who have grown both say they don't see them as being the same variety except for a different leaf form, which leads one to belive that a cross might well have been at work.

So I guess what I'm asking is whether or not you've grown the PL versions along side the original RL ones to observe, taste, and otherwise make some decision about whether a cross was involved or a mutation.

Based on the frequency of mutation that can lead from a homozygous dominant to heterozygous, both RL, and then to homozygous recessive, PL, one would not expect that many PL's by mutation alone.

With that in mind Bill, what is your take on distributing PL version varieties, with or without a new name?

I have to say it concerns me a bit. Unless the PL version is known to have arisen by leaf mutation alone.

As for what you call OTVBogeyvine, the orginal cross that led to OTV Brandywine having happened in Craig's garden, I'm not sure I understand the rationale for upsizing it when it already is a 1# plus fruit size variety. But I suppose that could be considered as flattery that the person who did that liked it so much and perhaps is one who grows competition sized tomatoes that he specifically chose that variety to work with. And he's renamed it to OTVBogeyvine? That does surprise me a bit, for several reasons.

spudleafwillie · February 25, 2006

Bully,
I’m glad, and releived too, that I am not the only one with a fascination for PL varieties. Mine is more like a chronic disease with no hope for a cure. At least I’ll die happy with my beloved “spudleafs”.

Yes, please send me a sample of that Stick PL mutation you have found. I’ll PM you my snailmail info so you can send the seeds.

Since this appears to be a new distinct PL form of Stick that you first found, you should have the honor of naming it so as not to confuse the new PL form with the original Stick variety. My suggestion for a new name(s) for the PL form would be “Potato Stick “, Or "Bully's Potato Stick “ thus showing it is PL and whose parent variety was Stick where the mutation occurred. What do you think of the suggested names?? It's your call on the new name as you were the one who first found it “old man” :-)).

You might want to send some seeds and the pics of the PL mutant out to the guys at TGRC (Tomato Genetics Resource Center) at the Univ. of California/Davis. Maybe , if asked, they might be able to determine if the “c ” recessive gene for the potato leaf characteristic is actually present or is absent and that it is indeed a genetic mutation and not an accidental or inadvertant cross pollination . It might turn out to be a new marker or mutant gene stock for them. Their web addy is:
http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/
Regards,
Bill Malin

February 25, 2006	#1
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf population explosion Here are the final list of varieties of my growouts for 2006 There are some RL varieties that are being used for crosses but most are PL POSSIBLE BLACK HEART RL FLAT HEAD MONSTER PL BLACK FROM TULA PL LARGE PINK BULGARIAN F5 PL RUSSIAN 117 PL SALMON'S PL HESHPOLE F5 PL GERMAN RED STRAWBERRY RL PURPLE RUSSIAN RL BEDUIN PL NOIRE DE COSEBOEUF RL PURPLE RIDER PL ROBSON ANGOLAN RL SHUNTUKSKI VELIKAN RL BLACK RUSSIAN RL BLACK POTATO LEAF PL PURPLE PERFECT X PURPLE PRICE PL PURPLE POTATO LEAF PL OS-OH-PE-L PL AMISH OLD RED PL BILDER PL GIUSEPPI'S BIG BOY PL GLACIER PL GERMAN PINK PL GOOD PL GRACEFUL PL HARRY SPUDLEAF PL ITALIAN PURPLE PL JEFF DAVIS PL JOHN VESTA PL KARTOFEL NYI PL KENTUCKY POTATO LEAF PL MADBURY PL MEXICAN 39 PL MEXICO PL MCKINLEY PL MIKADO VIOLEHROTT PL NADJA PL OLIVE HILL PL POTATO LEAF YELLOW PL PI 205039 PL PALE PURFECT PURPLE PL PINK POTATO TOP PL POLISH PL POLISH PINK PL PRUDENCE PURPLE PL POTATO LEAF PL POLISH POTATO LEAF PL RED HOUSE FREE STANDING PL ROCKINGHAM PL SOUTHERN NIGHT PL STUMP OF THE WORLD PL STEVE PL SUGAR BEEFSTEAK PL TABLE TOP PL WHITE PL WEST VIRGINIA STRAW PL SPARK'S YELLOW PL GALINAS PL MILZANI RL SCHWARZE TOMATE RL PAUL ROBESON RL BLACK PRINCE RL NEGER TOMATE RL INDISCHE LILA RL NOIRE CHARBONNEUX RL OSHENHERZ RL MANALUCIE PL CABALLO RED PL MYSTERY PL GREEN PL EVERGREEN PL VALENA PINK BLACK BRANDYWINE PL BROADLEAF PL CANADA PURPLE PL CZECHSLOVAKIAN PL DWARF RECESSIVE PL EARLY TRIUMPH PL GENUINE ITALIAN POTATO LEAF GERMAN PINK PL GOOD PL GRANDPA CHARLIE PL GRANDPA WILLIE PL GRANDFATHER ASHLOCK PL JAGGED LEAF PL KORAL PL KIMBERLY PL LUCKY CROSS PL LITTLE LUCKY PL HENRY FIELD'S POTATO LEAF PL ELBE PL CRAIG'S POTATO LEAF PL PURPLE PRICE PL RUBY SPORT PL THROWBACK POTATO LEAF PLUM PL JAPANESE TREFILE BLACK PL LILLIAN'S YELLOW HEIRLOOM PL LITTLE LUCKY HEART PL YELLOW SUBMARINE PL OTV BRANDYWINE (BOGEYVINE) MARIANNA'S PEACE PL MANALUCIE PL

February 25, 2006	#4
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf Population Explosion Jersey John, I moved west from Doylestown, PA in 1985. I've been growing tomatoes for 50+years, but tomato growing is a whole new ballgame here in the desert southwest. All my growing is in containers from 2 to 26 gallons, all drip irrigated and mulched with 2-3 inches of crushed pecan shells. OTV (Bogeyvine) is a strain of OTV Brandywine developed by Steve Strickler of Dayton, OH. It is in all respects alike as OTV but has been selected for larger and more numerous fruit. Spud

February 25, 2006	#6
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf Population Explosion... sunscal \d Jersey John, There are varying degrees of foilage cover in PL varieties, some dense like Magnus which gives good sunscald protection, and some Like Stupice with sparse foilage that needs partial shade out here. Spud

February 25, 2006	#7
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Did I Miss Something? Where's Grub's Mystery Green PL ? Plenty of spudleaves to keep you busy there, that's for sure Enjoy.

February 25, 2006	#8
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf Population Explosion Jersey John, Its there between Caballo Red and Evergreen. Sorry Sir Grub for not giving you credit in the name, its OK in the database. CABALLO RED PL MYSTERY PL GREEN PL EVERGREEN PL Spud

February 25, 2006	#2
jerseyjohn61 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Z/6 Posts: 554	Willie, I envy both your list and your Growing area....JJ61

February 25, 2006	#9
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	SHhhhh... Don't anyone tell Spudleaf that he has a dentate tomato leaf for his photo. Fusion

February 25, 2006	#10
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Gotcha Gotcha Spud. I have a new one for you, too. Grub's Mystery small-fruited red PL that has reared it's head twice now. Good taste, very few seeds, I'd swear it was Kimberly. But there are a few mini beefs among them, which Kimberly doesn't have

February 25, 2006	#11
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf Growth Explosion Fusion, The pic is courtesy of the TGRC archives, so marked, and was the only one showing the c gene that was within the 100 x 100 pixel guidelines for avitars on T'ville. Here is the web addy for the pic: http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/images/thumb...ers,leaves.jpg A new pic for my avitar, taken with my new Olympus EVOLT 500 - 8 megapixel digital camera, is scheduled for sometime in late May probably of my Grandpa Charlie PL family heirloom. I will have pixel sizing capability with the Photoshop software. arriving with the new camera. Regards, Bill

February 25, 2006	#12
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	A few comments on the list, Bill - BLACK FROM TULA PL - since B from T is a reg leaf variety, if this ends up being stable (not only leaf form but in fruit description), needs renaming to avoid confusion.... LARGE PINK BULGARIAN F5 PL - ditto RUSSIAN 117 PL - ditto JOHN VESTA PL - this ia AKA Glesener (after John and Vesta Glesener) - been in the SSE collection for many years, very similar to Brandywine ROCKINGHAM PL - this is a reasonably recent OP developed in New Hampshire of all places (1940s or 1950s), a medium sized red (hence unusual, as red PLs are relatively rare) SOUTHERN NIGHT PL- unusual in being a Determinate potato leaf (not Dwarf/Tree type, but just compact and short growing) SPARK'S YELLOW PL - this was sent to me by Don Sparks as simply "Yellow" - I added the Sparks to the name and listed it in the SSE to give it a bit of definition. Very similar to Yellow Brandywine and Potato Leaf Yellow MANALUCIE PL - this showed up in a sample of Manalucie sent to me by SSE member Norbert Rahm - Manalucie is a RL tomato, so if this one ends up reproducible, it needs a new name. EVERGREEN PL - where did this one come from! Again, if it ends up stable, needs new name. DWARF RECESSIVE PL - Very unusual in being the ONLY Dwarf, true potato leaf (not just rugose reg leaf) variety I've seen. Would be great breeding material, since the tomatoes from this are unimpressive (medium sized pink seedy bland things) - I got this one out of the USDA. JAGGED LEAF PL - when I got this out of the USDA, there were two distinctive leaf forms - one true potato leaf, one slightly different but hard to explain. I grew one of each but have not returned to them to see if they are reproducibly different. CRAIG'S POTATO LEAF PL - this is actually a potato leaf form of Bisignano #2 that appeared in my garden - my friend Jeff Fleming gave it the new name and listed it in the SSE. OTV BRANDYWINE (BOGEYVINE) not heard of this before - if a distinct selection, and reproducible/stable, should have a distinct name. Interesting list - one concern I have is that if the same names are being used for both PL and RL "versions" of a variety (and that in itself is a problem, since my view is that the leaf form switch is indicative of a cross or mix up), we will just build the confusion that already exists! yes, I know....I am picky about this stuff. __________________ Craig

February 25, 2006	#13
bully Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: S.E. MI Posts: 794	Hello Spud, You have a wonderful list, I too am a big fan of the potato leaf varieties. I had an interesting plant develop from stick seeds I got from Rosco....not sure it would qualify as a potato leaf or not. Out of the stem of the plants grow these branches if you will, and at the end of each branch is a large paddle shaped leaf. (I can hear the 'twilight zone' music in my head as I type this) I saved seeds if you're interested give me a shout. Bully

February 25, 2006	#14
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I echo Craig's concern about what the PL versions of some of the original RL varieties actually are as well. Keith and I have been talking for yea, years, about the various mechanisms that can operate in getting an RL to a PL, simply by mutation. And as Craig has said, most of the PL's turn up as the result of a cross. One example is Cherokee Purple Potato Leaf found by Jere Gettle and listed in the SSE Yearbook. Folks who have grown both say they don't see them as being the same variety except for a different leaf form, which leads one to belive that a cross might well have been at work. So I guess what I'm asking is whether or not you've grown the PL versions along side the original RL ones to observe, taste, and otherwise make some decision about whether a cross was involved or a mutation. Based on the frequency of mutation that can lead from a homozygous dominant to heterozygous, both RL, and then to homozygous recessive, PL, one would not expect that many PL's by mutation alone. With that in mind Bill, what is your take on distributing PL version varieties, with or without a new name? I have to say it concerns me a bit. Unless the PL version is known to have arisen by leaf mutation alone. As for what you call OTVBogeyvine, the orginal cross that led to OTV Brandywine having happened in Craig's garden, I'm not sure I understand the rationale for upsizing it when it already is a 1# plus fruit size variety. But I suppose that could be considered as flattery that the person who did that liked it so much and perhaps is one who grows competition sized tomatoes that he specifically chose that variety to work with. And he's renamed it to OTVBogeyvine? That does surprise me a bit, for several reasons. __________________ Carolyn

February 25, 2006	#15
spudleafwillie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 7b sw New Mexico,. Posts: 197	Spudleaf Population Explosion...reply to Bully re: Stick Bully, I’m glad, and releived too, that I am not the only one with a fascination for PL varieties. Mine is more like a chronic disease with no hope for a cure. At least I’ll die happy with my beloved “spudleafs”. Yes, please send me a sample of that Stick PL mutation you have found. I’ll PM you my snailmail info so you can send the seeds. Since this appears to be a new distinct PL form of Stick that you first found, you should have the honor of naming it so as not to confuse the new PL form with the original Stick variety. My suggestion for a new name(s) for the PL form would be “Potato Stick “, Or "Bully's Potato Stick “ thus showing it is PL and whose parent variety was Stick where the mutation occurred. What do you think of the suggested names?? It's your call on the new name as you were the one who first found it “old man” :-)). You might want to send some seeds and the pics of the PL mutant out to the guys at TGRC (Tomato Genetics Resource Center) at the Univ. of California/Davis. Maybe , if asked, they might be able to determine if the “c ” recessive gene for the potato leaf characteristic is actually present or is absent and that it is indeed a genetic mutation and not an accidental or inadvertant cross pollination . It might turn out to be a new marker or mutant gene stock for them. Their web addy is: http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/ Regards, Bill Malin