Black Cherokee

[ShirleyC]

Has anyone heard of Black Cherokee Tomatoes? I can't find any info. on it but bought some today at the farmer's market and was told that that's what they are. I'm wondering if they are a cross or genuine heirloom. Anyone have any insight?

Shirley

[duajones]

Im wondering if they meant Cherokee Purple?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ShirleyC

Has anyone heard of Black Cherokee Tomatoes? I can't find any info. on it but bought some today at the farmer's market and was told that that's what they are. I'm wondering if they are a cross or genuine heirloom. Anyone have any insight?

Shirley

Shirley, this is the first time I've ever heard of a Black Cherokee.

The known Cherokee family is Cherokee Purple, Cherokee Chocolate, Cherokee Green and Cherokee Purple Potato Leaf. OH and the fuzzy one that Fusion is working with....forgot the name, which was the result of a cross .

Until known otherwise I would assume that it was the result of a cross between a black and an unknown other parent.

But I see you're in CA and thus all bets are off as to the name b'c over the years I've seen more names changed, etc., by some CA growers.

[nctomatoman]

Cherokee Purple and Cherokee Chocolate are "black" tomatoes (pink/black, and red/black), so I suspect that you have someone at that market that was just sloppy with the facts/names.

[ShirleyC]

These tomatoes do look like cherokee purple or even cherokee chocolate, but they are only about 2 oz and are ripe. Almost plum-sized.

The vendor had a whole box of them and they were all ripe.

Do the cherokees often come in such small sizes?

Shirley

[carolyn137]

Do the cherokees often come in such small sizes?

*****

Not in my experience they don't.

When talking that size you're perhaps talking Black Pear, Black Plum and more.

I don't think there's going to be any way of knowing exactly what you have unless you go back to the vendor and press for a more specific answer and tell the vendor that Cherokee Purple and Cherokee Chocolate, and as far as that goes even Indian Stripe ( a CP strain if you will) do not grow that small .

[nctomatoman]

A few years ago there was a vendor at the Raleigh Farmers Market with a fair selection of heirlooms. He had a box labeled Cherokee Purple - they were between 2-4 ounces and brown (so he had a poor strain of Cherokee Chocolate, to my view)...The Cherokees can vary a bit in size, but, for example, each of my plants are loaded with green fruit and they all look to be between 8-16 ounces. Either he had the last small fruit from clusters, or the variety was a mess.

I think that we can't underestimate the issue out there with crossed, mixed up, or mislabeled seed being used for either seedlings or fruit to vend. The more people that catch the heirloom bug, the better - but it also greatly increases the liklihood that what you see is not what you get.

[carolyn137]

I think that we can't underestimate the issue out there with crossed, mixed up, or mislabeled seed being used for either seedlings or fruit to vend. The more people that catch the heirloom bug, the better - but it also greatly increases the liklihood that what you see is not what you get.

*****

Agree completely Craig.

But a Cherokee Black??????

From what I've read at the several places where I post, the CA vendors are either with it as to proper names and all, or get some things messed up or get some messed up seeds, or, harumph, change names to suggest that they have something different from everyone else.

But this guy had a whole box of these about 2 oz fruits, and, and, really nothing more that I can say. Well, there is, but I won't.

[betsylt]

Craig & Carolyn wrote:

I think that we can't underestimate the issue out there with crossed, mixed up, or mislabeled seed being used for either seedlings or fruit to vend. The more people that catch the heirloom bug, the better - but it also greatly increases the liklihood that what you see is not what you get.

*****

Agree completely Craig.

But a Cherokee Black??????

From what I've read at the several places where I post, the CA vendors are either with it as to proper names and all, or get some things messed up or get some messed up seeds, or, harumph, change names to suggest that they have something different from everyone else.

But this guy had a whole box of these about 2 oz fruits, and, and, really nothing more that I can say. Well, there is, but I won't.

Hi all,

Thought I'd jump in here. Shirley gave me one of the tomatoes in question tonight. When I taste it, I'll get back to you with my thoughts, but I'm hoping we can get a photo of it before I cut into it! (Shirley, if you can do it, a photo with whatever shape and size variants you've gotten with a coin on a plate is always helpful when trying to identify a variety.)

Shirley, are all the fruit round and globe-shaped like the one you gave me? This one looks more like Nyagous or Paul Robeson than one of the Cherokees (Purple, Green, or Chocolate) because Shirley's specimen is very much globe-shaped, while the Cherokee family in my experience are at least somewhat flattened and quite a bit larger.

At this point, I'm leaning against Cherokee anything, but not sure what I'm leaning toward -- this isn't a plum or pear.

[lumierefrere]

If it's round and small it be could be Brad Gates' Haley's Purple Comet.

[ShirleyC]

I've attached a couple of pictures of these globe-shaped tomatoes for you to see at Betsy's suggestion.

Still don't know what they are, but they are sure good!

Shirley

[nctomatoman]

They look like the brown colored round varieties, such as Black Prince or Black Ethiopian or Black Russian or Miss Kennedy or Slovenian Black...you get the idea. Hard to tell if they are distinct varieties or synonyms for the same basic tomato.

[Fusion_power]

Likely this is just another crossing event that someone liked and saved. For the record, I have 5 F2 plants of a Cherokee Chocolate X Smoky Mountain Red (a fuzzy variety) growing in my garden So far, they have shown susceptibility to Fusarium with 2 plants pulled up and discarded. The rest are healthy and beautiful and setting fruit. I've been calling it Fuzzy Chocolate but have no idea what color it will be. I don't consider it to be a Cherokee anything at this point. It is just a variety to stabilize and see if something good comes out.

On a side note, I have ripe fruit of Jim Myers P20 Blue Tomato. They are NOT blue. They are jet BLACK. If you think you've seen a black tomato, go back to square one, because these beauties are darker than anything I've ever grown. These tomatoes color up based on exposure to the sun. The more sun, the darker they get. The bottom of the fruit is green ripening to an off red.

[domoarimato]

Holy Cow... That's amazing, Darrell. I had read about these, but these are the first photos that I've seen. I'm floored. Please do post some photos of the cut fruit, so we can see the flesh and seed gel color... Truly amazing... If I didn't know YOU, I'd suspect photoshop! LOL

[peispud]

Amazing is right! Wow.
What's the taste like, that's the important question? Imagine black tomato sauce on pasta! Any idea of the varieties he may have crossed?
I won't beg but if you are allowed to share seeds .... ?

Peter