Hybrid taste

[Razorback04]

First off, let me say that I've found the thread about "best tasting" tomatoes very interesting and enlightening. Because of that thread, I've added Cherokee Purple, Stump of the World, and Brandywine OTV's to my list of "must haves" for next year. This year, I'm growing Arkansas Travelers, Rutgers, Glory, Shady Lady, German Johnson, German Giant, and Black Krim.

I don't think I read one single mention of a hybrid in that "best tasting" thread. So, what's the best tasting hybrid? Is there such a thing?

[Tomatovator]

Big Beef is a very good tasting hybrid for me. In fact I wish I had planted some this year as my heirloom varieties are unimpressive so far. I'd even take an Early Girl as they are always early and have a tangy taste.

[feldon30]

I like Sungold, Brandy Boy, and Jet Star as hybrids.

For some, Sungold is a burst of intense fruity tomato flavor that makes the wait for the big beefsteaks less frustrating. For others, it has an "off" funky flavor. I personally like it a lot. Everyone has different tastes. For instance, I just do not seem to have the tastebuds for well-regarded varieties like Cherokee Green (which is green-when-ripe, resembling the color and texture of a ripe Kiwi fruit).

Carolyn is a big proponent of Jet Star and I was lucky to find plants from Chef Jeff's as my seedlings didn't show much vitality. It cranked out about 30 fruit and they were all blemish-free and from outward appearances looked, well, BORING. But the taste is anything but. It's not an Ark. Traveler (which produced a similar crop later on, but tasted much sweeter for me and was a sleeper hit at the SETTFest), but I will probably never have a garden without Jet Star.

There is conjecture if Brandy Boy really is a hybrid or a stabilized OP. There is no such mystery about Sungold, so I buy seeds every year.

Ark. Traveler and Black Krim were excellent for me, I hope you like them.

[rnewste]

I echo Gary Ibsen of Tomatofest, that Dona and Carmello are excellent tasting and disease resistant hybrids. My tomato garden will never be without these every single year!

Ray

[nctomatoman]

I ran through many hybids on my way to going to primarily OP varieties. Sungold is one of my very favorite tomatoes, of course, and I like Sweet Million as well. The other very expensive gold or yellow cherries (Golden Gem, Sun Sugar, Sweet Gold, Sweet Orange, Golden Honey Bunch) are all good - but just a tad below Sungold to our tastes (and, as I said, very expensive!). I was not impressed with Jenny, and haven't found a pink hybrid cherry or grape that I like all that well - Chiquita, Jolly, etc.

For larger fruited tomatoes, I've tried other people's Big Beefs, and though they certainly look nice, I am not found of the firm texture. For me, the best tasting hybrids were Gurney Girl and Better Boy, and Supersonic quite good as well. I was not as fond of Jet Star or Moreton - just didn't do anything for my taste buds. So, it is Stump of the World, Cherokee Purple, Lillian's Yellow, Green Giant to demonstrate the standard of flavor and texture that we look for, just to name a very few.

[Razorback04]

I get the feeling that most people grow hybrids because of their uniformity, higher productivity, and greater resistance to disease. In exchange for these positive attributes, we generally sacrifice flavor. On the other hand, heirlooms are generally more difficult to grow and more prone to disease, but taste better.

Is that correct? Or is there some other reason why the discussions here are centered around heirlooms.

[nctomatoman]

That's a very broad generalization, since I've found that if you choose your heirlooms/OPs carefully and do some testing, you can experience no drop off in yield or increase in disease susceptibility - and get the flavor as well. When I look out at my various Indeterminate heirlooms growing in pots that are all 7 or more feet tall (the plants,not the pots!), with 20 pounds of fruit on each, and only 2 showing a bit of disease - no reason to not have your cake and eat it too!

Other reasons - you can save the seeds, you can share the saved seeds, greater variety of color/size/flavor - but it is a very individual decision. All I can do is relate what works for me!

As to why else the numbers of posts focusing on each type is imbalanced, I think it is probably due to just the sheer comparative numbers of each.

[gflynn]

Razor,

You just named some of the favorite misconceptions about Heirlooms. Let me give you a run down:

1. Hybrids are more productive.

This depends upon the plant but in general this is TRUE. All Cherries tend to be productive, by the way. Some big favorites like Brandywine are so unproductive that I won't grow them again. Dr. Lyle is nice because it is quite productive.

2. Hybrids are more disease resistant.

Not really because VFNT are not the big problems with tomatoes. Its mostly fungal disease and that varies from plant to plant. Cherokee Purple, Cherokee Green and Black Cherry seem to hold up well for me.

3. Heirlooms taste better

This is generally true because folks only grow the good ones but there are lots of bad ones. Try White Oxheart or Stick for example. These are novelties that are just for style.

4. Heirlooms are harder to grow.

Varies from plant to plant. Black Cherry and Cherokee Green will take over your yard and not let it go. :-)

Greg

[Razorback04]

I've just detected a very strong preference for heirlooms here, and I was just trying to find out why that was.

Here, in NW Arkansas, our tomatoes suffer terribly from what appears to be early blight. This blight is an equal opportunity killer, .......heirlooms and hybrids both eventually succumb to this dreaded pest. Spraying seems to prolong the suffering, but doesn't come close to curing it. Even my tomatoes that were planted on new ground now have it, and I've been very, very careful to avoid cross contamination from the diseased patch.

BTW, Brandywine OTV is on my list to grow next year. Just how unproductive is it?

[PaulF]

Razorback04:

Personally, OP (read heirloom) tomatoes have NOT been more difficult to grow nor have they been more prone to disease. My experience is that when I grew only hybrids my growing seasons were all cut short because of disease problems. Since I have become an heirloomian my tomato plants have been mostly free of blights or wilts that used to plague me. Perhaps that is because I began paying attention to all of all the expert advise on the tomato forums and my technique is better. I feel it is because OPs are LESS prone to disease. For me, yield is much higher now than before.

And yes, taste is the main factor for growing heirlooms (I find it difficult to call them OPs). Better taste may not be the exact description I would use. I like the variations of flavor, texture and juiciness. Some are definite spitters and do not get many chances. I also am attracted to the colors, shapes, sizes and growth habits that I was unable to find in hybrids. Granted I only grew my father's hybrids which limited me to six or eight varieties, but until I try the 4627 varieties of OPs I have not yet grown, I will not go back to hybrids.

Since I grow tomatoes for fun, there is still a lot of fun yet to be had with heirlooms. I won't make disparaging remarks about hybrids or their growers...my way is not the only way. My children may not agree with that last remark since they gave me a t-shirt that said," There are two ways to do everything...my way and the wrong way."

[duajones]

I really enjoyed Jet Star as well and Big Beef was pretty good too. Taste wise this year I did like Cherokee Purple and NBD better but still really enjoyed them all.

[montanamato]

I am currently losing the lower half of my tomato garden to curly top virus for the third year...My other problem is grasshoppers....I can tell you from years of growing that hybrids go down just as quickly to curly top as heirlooms....
My favorite hybrids were Dona and Caramello , with Park's Whopper a distant third....I grew Sungold and sunsugar two consecutive years and found them uneatable...I can't get used to that taste and the sun and wind makes a chainsaw needed to get through the skins...
I have grown mainly OP tomatoes for the past 20 years and they will continue to make up 99% of my plants until I can find an advantage otherwise...
Oh , anyone in the west who fights with curly top ,Saladmaster really is invincible....All the tomatoes bordering it were also spared...I think I will try planting Saladmaster everyother plant next year...

Jeanne

[feldon30]

No need to beat a dead horse. People have already made my points.

The disease resistances that most hybrid varieties have (Verticillium, Fusarium, Nematodes, Tobacco Mosiac Virus) are not the diseases that most people in home gardens encounter (Early Blight, Septoria Leaf Spot, Alternaria Canker, Anthracnose, Bacterial Spot, Bacterial Speck, Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus, Curly Top), so what's the point?


There are many varieties called Brandywine by the way.

Brandywine OTV, Brandywine pink (Sudduth's), Red Brandywine (Landis), and Brandywine Yellow (Platfoot).

The "Sudduth's", "Landis", and "Platfoot" are there because there are so many false versions of all forms of Brandywine floating around out there and these are known as the best or originals. There have been volumes written about the confusion of the Brandywine name. Brandywine OTV is a recent development and one of the most productive. I've tasted Brandywine (pink) and Brandywine Yellow and found both delicious. The original is Brandywine (a pink tomato) which dates back to the 1890's. I will admit that this one is often very unproductive especially in hot, humid climates.

[spyfferoni]

I thought that Early Goliath from Totally Tomatoes was a really great hybrid I grew last year, and I've heard good things about their other Goliath hybrids. I'm seriously considering some of the hybrids bred for heat since the last two summers have been extremely hot. We have had temps 95 degrees and higher since the latter part of June and my plants are not setting fruit. I've heard Heatwave will set fruit when the temps are so high. I know that their are a few OPs that handle the heat better than others, so I'll look into those as well. Next year my garden will probably be made up of mostly early varieties and heat tolerant ones. I'm getting pretty disappointed!!!

Tyffanie

[Tomatovator]

Is there an OP or heirloom that remains fairly firm even when ripe? The flavor of my heirlooms has improved greatly but they are all on the soft side for me. The firmer texture of say Big Beef was one of the things I liked about it.