Zone 7 seed starting ? for sick kid's camp

[annecros]

Hello all,

I have recently become acquainted with an individual who works at a year around camp in North Carolina that offers children with medical problems an opportunity to go to camp.

I'll split my seedbank with him, and may even buy him a few extra, just to get some dirt under these kid's nails, and the opportunity to pick their own tomato. Heirloom tomatoes were first on his list when he considered starting a garden. Right now, he is scouting out several gardening plots, and is in USDA Zone 7. Problem is, he has never started a tomato seed! The only heirloom tomato he mentioned is German Johnson. I'm thinking this year he is almost too late for anything but cherries and pastes, but don't know for sure.

Does he absolutely have to start indoors? Growing in Zone 10 for my entire gardening career (except for my childhood in Zone8 ) I honestly don't have a clue. I am going to guide him over to this forum for advice, because he is looking into other vegetables that the kids might have an interest in growing and eating.

I think with help, those kids could have a candy store of veggies to enjoy. It is a year around camp.

Thanks in advance.

[feldon30]

There must be an expert or two around here who knows about gardening in North Carolina. Oh wait, I met a few at Tomatopalooa V!! So it's probably pointless for me to even speculate, but since I was bored and Google was handy...

I found some run-of-the-mill advice (Celebrity and Better Boy anyone? ) but no planting calendar.

Looking at the USDA Hardiness Zone map, it looks like western and central North Carolina are 7a/7b.

I did find a list of historical frost dates (up to 1980). Asheville: April 10. Gastonia: April 6. Greenville: April 1. Greensboro: April 6. Charlotte: April 2. Raleigh: April 1.

So I would (perhaps wrongly) assume that I want to set my plants out around April 20th. If I had a growing season lasting April 20 -> October 20, I'd have some leeway on when I get my plants in. Houston is ~4 months over-and-out (Mar 1 -> July 1)!!

So if it were me, I'd sow 80+ day varieties this week and other varieties in the following week or two.

[nctomatoman]

I've found a way to keep it pretty simple!

I start seeds February 15
Transplant into 4 inch pots March 15
This gives me decently sized seedlings by April 15, though they are still quite small.
After that, it all depends upon last frost date - we always get one near mid April, but have been typically safe after that.

The caveat is that Raleigh seems to have crept into zone 8 recently!

[feldon30]

Eek! An expert! You just snuck up on me there.

[annecros]

Wow, thanks guys. Does he absolutely have to start indoors? He is about as novice as you can get - and is there a reasonable way to do so? I would think that if he decided to do some seed starting it would be a great thing to involve the kids.

Good to know I still have a bit of time to get some seed to him.

[feldon30]

I think he will have a tough time maintaining appropriate temperatures and light levels for 8 weeks anywhere but inside.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by annecros

Wow, thanks guys. Does he absolutely have to start indoors? He is about as novice as you can get - and is there a reasonable way to do so? I would think that if he decided to do some seed starting it would be a great thing to involve the kids.

It's possible, in theory. However, seeds need warmth to germinate. After that, they could be moved outside during the day, if temperatures allow. I find when starting my seeds, it's too cold the first couple of weeks to be able to count on temps being warm enough to have them outside everyday. After that, I play it by ear. Usually after about four weeks, they simply have to get moved outside once I pot up because I run out of room under the lights.

A cold frame might be something to consider, if he really wanted to start them outside.

[dice]

[cold frame]

Here is a picture of a cold frame built over a manure pit.:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...otbed05029.jpg

Underneath it is a hole 3' deep, filled with a mix of manure
and compostable materials (grass clippings, etc). The grower
sets his seedling trays on top of the composting mix, and he
covers it with the cold frame. The decaying manure and
compost provide enough heat to keep the seedlings inside
from freezing at night, even when there is frost on the ground
around the coldframe.

Note: a 1' deep hole probably will not do. The composting
mix needs to be deep enough for some heat to build up
in the center of it for this to work.

As it gets later in the season, and you only need to protect
against temperatures in the low '30s F, just the cover alone
should be good enough to keep seedlings from frost damage.
But when temperatures can get down into the '20s F and
below, they need a heat source as well.

(I would not leave the end of it open like it is in the picture
above. That is to let excess heat out in the daytime when
the sun is shining on it. There is probably a piece that covers
the ends at night that you cannot see in the picture. Most
people hinge the glass top instead, so that it can be propped
open on a sunny day.)

Experienced tomato growers seem to mostly just use
4' flourescent lights inside until it is warm enough to
move seedlings outside without danger of frost damage.
(This requires "hardening off", etc.)

[celestina]

We used to do a "hot" frame a few years back. It worked very well. Why we gave up on it was that the wind would constantly pull the top off and we were in repair mode most of the time. These hot frames can get hot so it's important to vent them on warm days. I would say the square pit we dug was about 2.5 to 3 feet deep.

[jenn_sc]

I've started seeds indoors for years now under suspended florescent lights.....which can be cheaply gotten at any store like Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.

If the kids will be helping with seed starting, and he's not planning to start too many, he may want to consider using peat pellets. I like them because they're so convenient...the plants get to a good potting up size with good roots encased in netting. When it's time to plant, just pull off the netting and put in a larger container. I never bother with the "seed starting tray" they sell with the pellets. I can usually find something around the house to sit them in that will absorb extra water. I also pot up into styrofoam cups with a few holes punched in the bottom...easy, cheap, and they can be washed and reused next year.

He still has a couple of weeks, at least, before starting seeds. If you want any extra seeds for him send me a pm and I'll look through my stash and see what I can send. Good luck!

Jennifer

[jenn_sc]

Also, I forgot to mention...I have seeds for lots of other veggies, carrots and peppers and radishes....that I"d be glad to donate....as well as TONS of flower seeds. Just let me know!

[annecros]

Thanks so much everyone. I just got word that he has applied for registration here, as I was not the only one that guided him toward T-ville!

I just didn't know what to say - sheesh. Zone 10? I poke some holes in a solo cup, get it wet, drop some seed, and sort of stir the starter up. Great germination, no hardening off. I admire you folks.

[JimmyWu]

Hi All...

I'm the acquaintance that Anne talked about in the beginning of this thread. She brought me to the forum because of the knowledge that could be learned here. She has been helpful in my quest to start a garden at the camp, and I'm indebted to her.

I'm trying to get to the point where we can grow alot of the vegetables that we use ourselves. I'd like for the kids to be able to get involved and have fun with it. Growing watermelons, pumpkins, strawberries and kid friendly food stuffs. My thinking is that we might introduce a child that has never left the city to gardening and farming. Or better yet, maybe a picky eater might just try a tomato because he or she picked it.

Right now I have enough area to grow about 20-30 tomato plants, depending on the other mix of vegtables and fruits that we might grow. This is in an area known as the "Therapy Garden."

Currently we have been growing herbs in 8 fifty gallon planters. I'm thinking of planting cherry tomatoes and determinate type of plants in four of them. I'd also have room along a wooden fence to plant sunflowers,edible flowers or more toms. I plan on lining the walkways with strawberries.

I will be meeting with our landscaper this week to sort some of this out, and try to get another parcel of land to further the project. I am trying to keep it kinda small and manageable. I have employees that will help in the project as well as the landscapers.

As Anne has stated, I'm quite the novice to growing tomato from seed. I have been growing plants in containers at home for about 6 years. However, I have been purchasing plants and gone from there.

I've seen the practice of growing seed under lights before and probably will go that route. It should be easy to acquire lighting and seed trays. Can I start the seed in a wet paper towel and transplant to seed trays with ordinary soil ? Or would a starter type soil be better? I'm sure when I comb through the other theads here alot of my questions will be answered.

Thanks Anne and everyone else !!!

Jimmy

[annecros]

Hey Jimmy,

Welcome. Brace yourself for a whole lot of information via the Tomatoville Brain Trust!

Seriously, good people, great place. I got seed for ya, and it will keep a couple of years if stored properly. By that time, you will have little cherry types volunteering every Spring! They are almost weeds.

Give the kids a hug for me.

[feldon30]

I posted my advice on seed starting here:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....59&postcount=3