Mystery Black -- Help with Identification??

[Barnowl]

I thought I was growing an Orange-1 plant from seeds I purchased from Amishland seeds and what I got was a firm fleshed, two locule, medium sized black tomato... I really wanted to make the Orange-1 marmalade, but decided to make it with sungolds and a few orange hierlooms I bought at a store...

Anyways, here's the email I sent to Amishland along with pictures to help with identification. Any idea what variety I might have here? they don't seem to resemble any other black amishland sells.... Thanks...

Hi, there was a problem with the seeds that I ordered seeds from you this past spring – Orange-1 and Amazon Chocolate (which I grew out) and Gypsy Tsygan and Giant Black (which I did not) . The amazon has produced very nice black tomatoes (in a poor growing season), though out of 4 starts I grew, 2 were PL and 2 were RL. I tossed the RL and gave the other PL to my sister. Also, the seeds of Orange-1 were incorrect. The plant grew fantastically – almost 5 feet with huge central stem, semi determinate I suppose, yet fruits ripened to quite a firm fleshed black tomato. The taste is a little watery, nothing like the Amazon or Paul Robesons I am growing. They seem like a black paste variety, but I am mo expert. They have a two locule cavity. Looking at your website, I thought they might be the Gypsy Tsygan but they don’t seem quite the same, especially the two locule part. I have attached photos… Any idea what the variety might be???

I totally understand that mix-ups occur and just wanted to let you know that there was one in my case.

[carolyn137]

Almost any variety that beomes seperated from its name is impossible to ID and since you see nothing at the Amishland site that resembles it, that's a problem.

I'll be very curious to see how Lisa at Amishland responds.

[Worth1]

Yet another tomato for me to add to my growing list of tomatoes that need a NEW name and history.

I think I will come up with some story about how a Barn Owl carried the seeds on the Titanic and flew off just before it sank.

Worth

[amideutch]

Hey Worth, I seem to remember something similar from Carolyn. I think it was a Duck that ate some seeds that came from a fish's behind and deposited them in someone's garden. Isn't that how it went Carolyn? Ami

[Barnowl]

I'll let you know how Lisa responds... and if it is still a mystery, I'll send you some seeds Worth!!!

Your response, Ami reminds me of the coffee made from coffee beans from Indonesia that were harvested from Jaguar poop. Crazy high $$ price -- One place was selling it at $15/cup in Vancouver. Probably a little acidic you would think???

[Worth1]

(((((Jaguar poop!!!!!))))))

Now that is strange.

Jaguars live in South America.
I want one for a pet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar
Civets are what the coffee comes from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civet

I did find this though.

http://www.jaguarcoffee.com/

And this, it seems to be called a tomato owl.

I don't get it myself.



Worth

[Worth1]

I must say I am sorry for having so much with the mystery tomato thread.

I just cant help myself.

Worth

[amideutch]

B-owl, Yeah I've heard of the Jag bowel coffee. I just wonder how they get the jags to eat the coffee beans.
Hurricane Ike is roaring through Texas and here's Worth making funnies. Hey Worth, somebody is out in your garage trying to steal your Trump. Ami

[Barnowl]

Just by chance, we had some friends visiting from Powell River who I gave one of the Orange-1 starts to in the Spring. She is also getting the same black types as I am... the whole seed package was probably mislabelled...

Hope your weathering the storm well Worth....

[carolyn137]

Just FYI, but I have tons or orange-1 seed if you want some. The seeds are about 4-5 years old but you can double sow and should have no problem germinating all the plants you need.

My Orange-1 is directly from Andrey Baranovski of Belarus who was also the source for Amishland and I listed them in the SSE YEarbook where they're available to all SSE members.

Off hand I don't remember if they're commercially available elsewhere other than Amishland and didn't Google to check that out.

I mention this since you're now thinking it was a mislabeled seed pack yet said above that you saw nothing else at the Amishland website that looked like the black you have.

If interested Barnowl, just PM me.

[Lomatia]

The civet cat coffee from Indonesia is VERY expensive. Beats me that some people (read wankers) will pay this money.

[Zana]

A fool for coffee and their money are soon parted.

Love the "w" word reference Lomatia...but I have a feeling many of them in the States haven't a flipping clue what you mean. Which is probably a good thing too. ;-) To paraphrase a fav phrase my cuz in Perth uses, Here in Tomatoville, we've all got "allot of joeys and tomatoes flitting about our upper-paddocks". Heeheehee.

And sorry. Can't help identify the mystery black. I've only grown 2 varieties of black so far and they're too dissimilar.

[Barnowl]

Lisa at Amishland emailed me back last night and here are some excerpts:


"WOW, I am stunned! I can give you a full refund for all the seeds. I had 2 types of leaves on the Chocolate Amazon and should have made that clear to the customers. Both are the real deal tho.

I just opened your photos.I really cant tell but the "Gypsy" or if its a paste type maybe the Debarreo Black are the probable guesses for me. I am so sorry that you had this problem. You are the first to mention a problem."

She goes on to say she was so busy this Spring she easily could have made a mistake and offered a full refund or free seeds when 2009 seeds are available... All in all a satisfying response given the situation, though here's a question:

She says Amazon Chocolate has two leaf types (is this a stable form???)

Also, she mentions Debarao Black as a possible match, and I think that is exactly what I have. I've attached a photo taken from Daves Garden and it looks pretty darn close... Mystery solved??? Sorry Worth...

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Barnowl

She says Amazon Chocolate has two leaf types (is this a stable form???)

Hmmm, dunno what to say to this -- but I'll offer what I know about this var, along with some personal opinions. It is my understanding that this Amazon Choc originated from a friend of Lisa, or something along those lines as she had indicated on her website. None of us had ever heard of this var before then, and there has also been some speculation as to what other variety it might possibly be (if any).

In any case, when she originally offered it on her site, I believe it was listed as PL. So, to my mind, it should be a PL, and it should also be maintained and distributed by the seedsaver as such.

Any RL plants might give perfectly good results, and great tasting fruit. But, should the result really be confidently called "Amazon Chocolate" -- was there perhaps a cross, a mutation, an instability, etc? My personal opinion is that "it" should not -- by Lisa, or anyone else.

I grew Amazon Chocolate this year, seeds from a long-time listed SSE member who sent them to me as a must grow. I grew them out, and ended up putting out two plants in the garden, both PL. Their original source was Amishland Seeds, according to their '07 listing.

I don't recall having to cull any RL seedlings from my sowing, either. Great flavor, plants a bit on the compact side. Doesn't resemble or taste like any PL dark that I've grown so far.

[Andrey_BY]

Never trust on what Amishland (Lisa) wrote or told you. She is there mostly for earning extra bucks from wrong (by her) named varieties. Yes, I was an original source for Orange-1 and some other Belarusian and other former Soviet tomato vareities mentioned on her web-site, but since then I regret about it very much. Lisa is just crazy about renaming any well-known varieties and writing blurbs about so called "new very rare extremely hard-to-find varieties from the only US source"...

The black tomato variety on your photo looks more Tsygan (Gypsy) than De Barao Chyornyi (De Barao Black) indeed!