Supercropping, Did You Know.

amideutch · January 1, 2009

This is another in the "Did You Know" series brought to you by our cannabis growing friends. I found out about this practice from a thread started and ongoing at GW titled "Innovative Indoor Tomato Grow", and some googling later on. The individual who started the thread also has a blog on the same subject at;

http://my.gardenguides.com/members/hautions11/blog

I put it in this forum because for most outdoor growers, the use of this technique would be more suitable during the seedling phase. Also for people growing plants indoors from seedling to maturity as you can control the height of the plant and increase production should fit in nicely. Hence this technique was developed by the cannabis closet growers who grow plants in confined spaces.

Basically it involves 4 techniques. Bending, tying, topping, and crimping or breaking and the latter is what were interested in. In crimping or breaking we are breaking the inner herd of the plant without damaging the outer, which is where all the plants strength comes from.

Breaking the plants inner walls will cause it to rebuild. But it rebuilds these networks better than they were before. It rebuilds so fast (under good growth conditions) that in 1-2 days the plant is using the new highways and it's increased capacity for moving water and nutrients.

This technique can begin as early as the seedling stage (my interest). Twisting the plant gently, using both hands so you don't pull on its roots. Grasp the spot to be treated with two fingers from each hand. Use one hand to stabilize, while the other gently, slowly twists till you feel the inner core give or in some cases snap. What this does will shorten the spacing between leaf nodes and will give you a sturdier stem and a more bushy plant which is how you want your seedling to be prior to plant out.

This coming spring I'm going to try the technique and see how it works out. I think maybe two or three breaks will be all that's needed and no more leggy seedlings. The blog and thread are ongoing and picture heavy with pictures of tomato seedling that have had this procedure done to them and more explanations on how to do it. Here's another site of many on the subject. Ami

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/fr...-tutorial.html

bcday · January 1, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Use one hand to stabilize, while the other gently, slowly twists till you feel the inner core give or in some cases snap.

Interesting idea. This is also the way one of my neighbors said to treat grapevine cuttings before rooting them. I'm not sure of the reason, perhaps to keep them from sending out too much top growth before there were enough roots to support it?

dcarch · January 1, 2009

Very interesting practice by cannabis growing friends.

If we try to do the same, can we smoke the tomato leaves?

Serious, will this encourage more root growth? After all, it's the roots which make everything else grow.

dcarch

ddsack · January 1, 2009

Saw the thread on Garden Web. Lots to think about. I will be interested to see side by side studies in production of twisted vs non-twisted plants. Are we really sure there are more new pathways for water and nutrients, or is there just more support fiber to shore up the broken area. I don't know enough about plant physiology to know the answer. Personally, the process doesn't appeal to me, any more than severe pruning does. I kind of like my tomatoes happy and unstressed.

And what dcarch said about the roots ... same question here also 8)???? Looking forward to seeing comparative results. I do appreciate others doing the experimenting!

OmahaJB · January 31, 2009

Ironically, when I first started growing tomato plants indoors 3 or 4 years ago, then later vegetables, some of the best advice I got after I googled the subject, was from cannibis websites. I guess when there's that much money to be had people get pretty serious about how they go about it.

I do remember they mentioned 'topping' to get two top branches rather than one. Not sure if that would work as well with tomato plants. I did need to use extreme pruning last season on a few seedlings in order to save them. I did not expect to get tomatoes since it was too late in the season, but I did end up with one Mammoth German Gold. Unfortunately the taste was not there, but I was impressed with how much the plant grew after expecting it to wither and die. It never got tall but it did get fairly wide. Planted earlier in the season I would have had a nice bushy tomato plant.

amideutch · February 21, 2009

Just an update on supercropping. He got fruit from his plants but they all had BER. I'm thinking the bending and twisting of the plant stem stressed the plant causing the BER. May work on cannabis but the maters don't like it. Ami

geeboss · February 22, 2009

Ami
Could it possibly be the hydrophonic setup not having the right mix of minerals and micro nutrients in the water that is contributing to the BER.

George

amideutch · February 23, 2009

George, anything is possible. But the majority of nutrient mixes contain Calcium Nitrate for the nitrogen requirement which also supplies the calcium need of the plant. But thats not to say a dirt grower shouldn't experement a little to see if he gets the same results under different conditions. Ami

January 1, 2009	#1
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Supercropping, Did You Know. This is another in the "Did You Know" series brought to you by our cannabis growing friends. I found out about this practice from a thread started and ongoing at GW titled "Innovative Indoor Tomato Grow", and some googling later on. The individual who started the thread also has a blog on the same subject at; http://my.gardenguides.com/members/hautions11/blog I put it in this forum because for most outdoor growers, the use of this technique would be more suitable during the seedling phase. Also for people growing plants indoors from seedling to maturity as you can control the height of the plant and increase production should fit in nicely. Hence this technique was developed by the cannabis closet growers who grow plants in confined spaces. Basically it involves 4 techniques. Bending, tying, topping, and crimping or breaking and the latter is what were interested in. In crimping or breaking we are breaking the inner herd of the plant without damaging the outer, which is where all the plants strength comes from. Breaking the plants inner walls will cause it to rebuild. But it rebuilds these networks better than they were before. It rebuilds so fast (under good growth conditions) that in 1-2 days the plant is using the new highways and it's increased capacity for moving water and nutrients. This technique can begin as early as the seedling stage (my interest). Twisting the plant gently, using both hands so you don't pull on its roots. Grasp the spot to be treated with two fingers from each hand. Use one hand to stabilize, while the other gently, slowly twists till you feel the inner core give or in some cases snap. What this does will shorten the spacing between leaf nodes and will give you a sturdier stem and a more bushy plant which is how you want your seedling to be prior to plant out. This coming spring I'm going to try the technique and see how it works out. I think maybe two or three breaks will be all that's needed and no more leggy seedlings. The blog and thread are ongoing and picture heavy with pictures of tomato seedling that have had this procedure done to them and more explanations on how to do it. Here's another site of many on the subject. Ami http://www.420magazine.com/forums/fr...-tutorial.html __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 1, 2009	#3
dcarch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NY Posts: 2,618	Very interesting practice by cannabis growing friends. If we try to do the same, can we smoke the tomato leaves? Serious, will this encourage more root growth? After all, it's the roots which make everything else grow. dcarch __________________ tomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomato matomato tomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomato matomato tomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomatomato matomato Last edited by dcarch; January 1, 2009 at 06:26 PM.

February 21, 2009	#6
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Just an update on supercropping. He got fruit from his plants but they all had BER. I'm thinking the bending and twisting of the plant stem stressed the plant causing the BER. May work on cannabis but the maters don't like it. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 23, 2009	#8
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	George, anything is possible. But the majority of nutrient mixes contain Calcium Nitrate for the nitrogen requirement which also supplies the calcium need of the plant. But thats not to say a dirt grower shouldn't experement a little to see if he gets the same results under different conditions. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 1, 2009	#4
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	Saw the thread on Garden Web. Lots to think about. I will be interested to see side by side studies in production of twisted vs non-twisted plants. Are we really sure there are more new pathways for water and nutrients, or is there just more support fiber to shore up the broken area. I don't know enough about plant physiology to know the answer. Personally, the process doesn't appeal to me, any more than severe pruning does. I kind of like my tomatoes happy and unstressed. And what dcarch said about the roots ... same question here also 8)???? Looking forward to seeing comparative results. I do appreciate others doing the experimenting!

January 31, 2009	#5
OmahaJB Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Toledo, OH Posts: 1,821	Ironically, when I first started growing tomato plants indoors 3 or 4 years ago, then later vegetables, some of the best advice I got after I googled the subject, was from cannibis websites. I guess when there's that much money to be had people get pretty serious about how they go about it. I do remember they mentioned 'topping' to get two top branches rather than one. Not sure if that would work as well with tomato plants. I did need to use extreme pruning last season on a few seedlings in order to save them. I did not expect to get tomatoes since it was too late in the season, but I did end up with one Mammoth German Gold. Unfortunately the taste was not there, but I was impressed with how much the plant grew after expecting it to wither and die. It never got tall but it did get fairly wide. Planted earlier in the season I would have had a nice bushy tomato plant.

February 22, 2009	#7
geeboss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Z7 Posts: 524	Ami Could it possibly be the hydrophonic setup not having the right mix of minerals and micro nutrients in the water that is contributing to the BER. George